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OpenCL, OpenGL 3.1 State Trackers "Hopefully Soon"

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  • OpenCL, OpenGL 3.1 State Trackers "Hopefully Soon"

    Phoronix: OpenCL, OpenGL 3.1 State Trackers "Hopefully Soon"

    Yesterday afternoon there were two new Gallium3D state trackers released by VMware / Tungsten Graphics for OpenGL ES 1.1 and ES 2.0 support. With these new state trackers there is now OpenGL ES 1.1/2.0 acceleration for any graphics hardware that has a Gallium3D driver...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=NzI3NQ

  • #2
    Hopefully the GEM/KMS/DRI2 refresh for radeon is done soon, because it feels like there has been little progress since half a year or so even though I know I'm wrong, so that the developers can finally concentrate on a Gallium3D driver.

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    • #3
      It's just a big, wrenching transition unfortunately. The transition from non-mm to kms/mm looks like it was roughly two years start to finish for Intel parts (it's not finished yet); hopefully a bit less for radeon because it can leverage some of the work done before.

      Moving the entire graphics stack onto a common memory manager is a big task; I don't think many folks realize how big. In principle memory managers are simple; in practice you need a lot of heuristics and client hints to get decent performance, which in turn means multiple optimizing passes across the entire driver stack. We're talking tens of man-years here, not a couple of developers for six months even though those developers *are* really smart.
      Last edited by bridgman; 05-16-2009, 11:03 AM.

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      • #4
        It is just incredible that such a complicated project can be done, by so many people!

        Why is VMware mentioned in the article? Are they pro Linux? I would expect them to not have interest in open source, besides their own kernel modules.

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        • #5
          Maybe think about who owns Tungsten Graphics

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          • #6
            Yep; Tungsten Graphics, ie most of the people behind Mesa, DRI, Gallium3D, TTM, and a bunch of other cool things, is now part of VMWare.

            http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...item&px=NjkyNw
            Last edited by bridgman; 05-16-2009, 07:43 PM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Kano View Post
              Maybe think about who owns Tungsten Graphics
              Ahhh. Good point

              From their website:
              Open source graphics technology development will continue as part of VMware's engineering team.
              What does that mean? Will vmWare kill Tungsten Graphics, and just use their developers for vmWare?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                Yep; Tungsten Graphics, ie most of the people behind Mesa, DRI, Gallium3D, TTM, and a bunch of other cool things, is now part of VMWare.

                http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...item&px=NjkyNw
                I have completely over looked that article

                Just checked Wiki
                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallium3D

                the link at the right for "Tungsten Graphics" doesn't exist...

                Why would vmWare buy Tungsten Graphics? Is it likely that their reason is they want to improve 2D/3D performance in vmWare? And are Tungsten Graphics developers the only ones that can do that???

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Louise View Post
                  Why would vmWare buy Tungsten Graphics?
                  Sometimes it's cheaper to buy a solution that is already in development then to create a solution from scratch and worry about violating it's patents and such.
                  Is it likely that their reason is they want to improve 2D/3D performance in vmWare?
                  Without a doubt.
                  And are Tungsten Graphics developers the only ones that can do that???
                  They are far from being the only ones capable but again it's sometimes cheaper to buy the patents and copywrite you need then to workaround them.
                  Last edited by deanjo; 05-17-2009, 10:35 AM.

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                  • #10
                    They bought them a while ago now, so there does not seem to be any impact on the Gallium development.

                    Beyond that, I don't know either the reason for the acquisition. Maybe it is for 3D virtualization but that seems odd to me (besides running Windows games, I don't see the benefit, so making real money from that seems difficult).

                    Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                    Without a doubt.
                    Well, the money is mostly in the server virtualization space. Sure you can make some amount of money on desktop virt too, but it's comparatively small. Vmware cannot expect any growth out of that.

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                    • #11
                      But you want Aero too in VMs, don't you

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by remm View Post
                        Beyond that, I don't know either the reason for the acquisition.
                        [cut]
                        Well, the money is mostly in the server virtualization space.
                        i smell GPU accelerated OpenCL computation.
                        that should be pretty usefull for some kind of server.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by remm View Post
                          Beyond that, I don't know either the reason for the acquisition. Maybe it is for 3D virtualization but that seems odd to me (besides running Windows games, I don't see the benefit, so making real money from that seems difficult).
                          They might have a customer like Onlive who needs that.

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                          • #14
                            If you wanted a single, standard API to run across a client/host boundary Gallium3D seems like a pretty good choice.

                            Also if you want to pick up a team familiar with 3D on Linux there's probably nobody better in the world.

                            Just a thought.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                              If you wanted a single, standard API to run across a client/host boundary Gallium3D seems like a pretty good choice.

                              Also if you want to pick up a team familiar with 3D on Linux there's probably nobody better in the world.

                              Just a thought.
                              Do you mean that the client should talk directly to the GPU, and not having to go though the hyper visor?

                              That sounds very dangerous from a security point of view. Wouldn't it be possible to have the GPU write to memory outside of the client address space?

                              But very interesting, if that is indeed what they are doing
                              Last edited by Louise; 05-17-2009, 01:12 PM. Reason: Wrote "host" ment "client".

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