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Nouveau Driver Remains Much Slower Than NVIDIA's Official Driver

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  • #41
    Originally posted by asdx
    Nouveau will have optimus support in distros *first* and by *default* real soon, and Nvidia won't.

    Ha ha, take that Nvidia.
    Without proper power management, what's the point of having Optimus? Even with proper power management, there's little to be gained from Optimus when even a GTX680 will idle at only 14W: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/K...ted_OC/26.html

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    • #42
      Originally posted by Veerappan View Post
      Re-read the article introduction. The 9800GT was stuck at the boot clock speed, and the 9800GTX was successfully re-clocked to a higher speed by Nouveau. That is a very significant reason for the difference in the benchmarks between those cards in Nouveau.
      Well, that's the problem then. Out of two similar cards, why should one be stuck at boot speeds?

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      • #43
        Originally posted by bug77 View Post
        Well, that's the problem then. Out of two similar cards, why should one be stuck at boot speeds?
        Because the alternative would be potentially frying the card. They need to test fan control first before enabling it.

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        • #44
          Originally posted by netrage View Post
          The steam engine was a revolution in engineering, but I don't think many use them anymore..

          "only the high end", yes. You think 8800GTX was a low end card when it was released? Compare apples and apples please.

          Again with the apples. And were low end cards ever anything but crap?

          The point is that doing a "benchmark" of 5+ year old GPUs is a pretty daft idea in the first place. Nobody cares if you happen to think it's the best thing evarrr.
          the architecture set forth by 8800 was totally different then anything used in putting dots on a screen before
          (as far as i know at least; simple "programmable" cores in mass were probably used before somewhere)

          after that the scheduler was refined(in opencl 1.2 designes, afaik) and memory access a bit
          nothing that would give performance improvements of some reasonable measure
          they did however, as it is with cpu's and all other chips, start printing smaller transistor leading to better power/performance ratios

          so that cards you as a consumer call old are the basis on witch it is best to build upon, being a new gpu or a driver for same
          so that 5+ years gpu is the best thing evarr, and it runs the 2 games i play at enough fps for me to not spend 500$ on a new one


          also the low end gpu's werent that crappy before, only in the last n years did nvidia and amd cripple them too uselessness
          (ofc compared to mid-high range gpu's of the same series)


          PS http://www.hwcompare.com/2185/geforc...e-gts-250-1gb/
          note the TDP, and note the 250 has double the memory
          scale that to performance


          edit: why do i bother again, i should let you live/die in your consumer ignorance
          Last edited by gens; 01-05-2013, 09:58 AM.

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          • #45
            Originally posted by gens View Post
            the architecture set forth by 8800 was totally different then anything used in putting dots on a screen before
            (as far as i know at least; simple "programmable" cores in mass were probably used before somewhere)

            after that the scheduler was refined(in opencl 1.2 designes, afaik) and memory access a bit
            nothing that would give performance improvements of some reasonable measure
            they did however, as it is with cpu's and all other chips, start printing smaller transistor leading to better power/performance ratios

            so that cards you as a consumer call old are the basis on witch it is best to build upon, being a new gpu or a driver for same
            so that 5+ years gpu is the best thing evarr, and it runs the 2 games i play at enough fps for me to not spend 500$ on a new one
            Blabla revolutionary etc ad infinitum. Fact remains that anything half decent 5 years later runs circles around those old "revolutionary" fossiles,
            regardless if it incorporates some "revolutionary" new design or not. And you don't have to fork out $500 either, not even $200...

            The thing about a PC compared to a console is that you CAN upgrade it every now and then instead of being forced to use the same
            whatever-old-crap they put in it 5 years back. On the other hand if you only play 2 games occasionally I hardly see the reason to go
            apeshit about some breathtaking breakthrough in GPU design that happened sometime after the middle ages.

            If you are happy with your 5 year old card then fine. Just don't say moronic stuff like "it's better than new gpus because this design is so
            wunderfluff i crap my pants". This kind of mentality is not conducive to bringing more/better NEW games/supported hardware to Linux from companies.

            edit: I don't know why I bother with this discussion, I'm happy for you to live/die in your 5 year old wet silicon dream... :P

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            • #46
              If for nothing else, I'm grateful to the nouveau devs for providing a driver that allows me to boot a linux distro for the first time on a computer sporting an nvidia gpu and not have to use slow-as-molasses vesa/vga graphics or crappy and still very slow nv graphics, at least until I install the binary driver. I'm further grateful that I'm able to continue to use that driver if I feel the performance is enough for my needs and my lap isn't being burnt to a crisp.

              To those saying "junk the nouveau driver": Remember, it's often the only thing available until you download the binary driver--without it, you'd likely be grinding your teeth just trying to open your web browser.

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              • #47
                @Michael

                Could you benchmark Ubuntu with the latest tweaks like unredirect full screen windows?

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                • #48
                  Originally posted by netrage View Post
                  Blabla revolutionary etc ad infinitum. Fact remains that anything half decent 5 years later runs circles around those old "revolutionary" fossiles,
                  regardless if it incorporates some "revolutionary" new design or not. And you don't have to fork out $500 either, not even $200...

                  The thing about a PC compared to a console is that you CAN upgrade it every now and then instead of being forced to use the same
                  whatever-old-crap they put in it 5 years back. On the other hand if you only play 2 games occasionally I hardly see the reason to go
                  apeshit about some breathtaking breakthrough in GPU design that happened sometime after the middle ages.

                  If you are happy with your 5 year old card then fine. Just don't say moronic stuff like "it's better than new gpus because this design is so
                  wunderfluff i crap my pants". This kind of mentality is not conducive to bringing more/better NEW games/supported hardware to Linux from companies.

                  edit: I don't know why I bother with this discussion, I'm happy for you to live/die in your 5 year old wet silicon dream... :P
                  i say'd they are similar, therefore when you make a driver for one you can extend it for the other
                  i didnt that its better then all new gpus, i sayd its better then half the new gpus
                  i sayd that that breakthrough you say is from the middle ages is still in your brand new card
                  dont distort my words

                  also a game dosent have to use 100% of a milion gpu's in sli to put out good graphics, it has to be programed good
                  i dont remember if it was Carmack or Newel that stated new games dont use all of dx9 let alone dx10/11
                  i personally hate people that think if something uses more cpu it is better, using 100% of a cpu/gpu is the easiest thing to do, but making a efficient and stable program is hard

                  also nvidia didnt make a good linux driver just for you to play games, it made it to sell graphic workstations
                  nvidia dosent care about you, an idiot, using linux, they care about making money
                  so dont talk about mentality or motives, you dont know me and you obviously dont know how you get those pretty pixels on the screen

                  as for nouveau, its awsome and has a huge potential of being even more awsome
                  Last edited by gens; 01-05-2013, 04:28 PM.

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by asdx
                    Nouveau is amazing, and it will only get better with time, and so will Mesa, and the other components from the Free software stack on Linux.

                    While on the other hand, binary blobs like Nvidia and FGLRX have no future in Linux. They're doomed, flawed and fated to destruction.
                    Care to explain why they're "doomed, flawed and fated to destruction"?
                    Assuming Nvidia doesn't release any documentation any time soon, how can the reverse-engineered nouveau ever be as good(or even better) as the driver made by those who produce the hardware?
                    Especially now that with Steam coming to Linux Nvidia has financial interest in providing a good performing and stable driver.

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by madbiologist View Post
                      As stated in the armers would not run their cards at the highest speed levels if it crashes immediately, or is unstable, or produces rendering errors.
                      Well, I thought that obvious but I suppose one doesn't always know the person they are engaging with.

                      Originally posted by madbiologist View Post
                      I note that your Quadro FX 570M has an older NV84 (G84) chipset, while the 9800 GT and 9800 GTX have the NV92 (G92) chipset. The GT 220 has the NVA5 (GT216) chipset. If you have been successful in reclocking the Quadro FX 570M please let us know which kernel version you are using as this would be good news and might also be useful to someone else.
                      I've been running fedora 18 since around october with their kernels. The only applicable change I made was to grubs kernel line where i enabled perflvl for nouveau.

                      Best/Liam

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