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Nouveau Driver Remains Much Slower Than NVIDIA's Official Driver

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  • #16
    I think the difference of performance between the 9800GT and 9800GTX is a sign of big trouble within nouveau.

    On top of that, the whole article is pretty useless for anyone using a proper video card. I mean, the 9800GTX is ancient.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by phoronix View Post
      Phoronix: Nouveau Driver Remains Much Slower Than NVIDIA's Official Driver

      While benchmarks this week have shown the Nouveau driver can be faster with the Linux 3.8 kernel, further benchmarks have shown that this reverse-engineered open-source driver for supporting the spectrum of NVIDIA GPUs is still at a significant loss compared to NVIDIA's official but proprietary Linux graphics driver.

      http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=18344

      Perhaps I missed something but why doesn't Michael run the Nouveau drivers at their highest speeds when possible?
      I've a Quadro FX 570M that has three clock levels. The highest level is core 475 shader 950 memory 700, while stock level is 275, 550, 300, respectively. A rather massive difference.
      If used this for gaming I'd always put it at the highest speed levels. I'd imagine most gamers would do the same.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by bug77 View Post
        I think the difference of performance between the 9800GT and 9800GTX is a sign of big trouble within nouveau.

        On top of that, the whole article is pretty useless for anyone using a proper video card. I mean, the 9800GTX is ancient.
        i think the difference is due to them having slightly DIFFERENT CHIPS
        jesus

        proper video card ?
        i have a 8800GT and its better then most new cards

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        • #19
          xrandr --panning or xorg.conf virtual

          The last time I checked (the nouveau driver from OpenSuse 2012.2) I could not get either

          xrandr --fb <mxn> --panning <mxn>...

          or

          xorg.conf/Section "Screen"/Subsection "Display"/virtual <m> <n>

          to work with the Nouveau driver, which is pretty much a show-stopper for me.
          Is there any chance it works with the new version? ...or that someday this
          defect will be fixed?

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          • #20
            It doesn't seem to be "much slower", rather "reasonably fast, but slower then proprietary". Regarding trolls above, stable OSS driver will be great, even if it is 10% slower (most people wouldn't notice) because it will be much more stable (tested by millions of people) which makes difference especially for older cards, that companies tend to ignore. Also, security can be reasonably checked, rechecked and fixed by experience kernel devs, closed binary code is simply potential security and maintenance problem. And last but not least, having ALL drivers in Kernel, eventually, will make life of developers lot easier, especially regarding refactoring of various APIs.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by gens View Post
              i think the difference is due to them having slightly DIFFERENT CHIPS
              jesus

              proper video card ?
              i have a 8800GT and its better then most new cards
              My point was exactly that: 9800GT and 9800GTX are slightly different chips, which is reflected in the performance shown using the proprietary driver. Yet there's like a 50% difference between the two when using nouveau. I don't see how that doesn't spell trouble.

              As a former owner, I'm ROFL ATM at your second statement. 8800GT better then most new cards? Better than most entry level new cards, maybe. It's certainly not better than a GTX260, GTX460 or a GTX660Ti (I owned all of them) or their faster siblings. Again, my point was that if the GT220 is a member of the 200 series (I'm not sure, manufacturers often rebrand their previous generation into newer generation, low-end parts), the newest card in this comparison is four(!) generations old.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by GT220 View Post
                Nouveau developers are retarded, trying to reinvent the wheel, wasting valuable resource and time instead of working on other parts of Linux that needs improvement.

                Time to take this garbage out and throw it into the dustbin of history where it belongs.
                i wish someone would do that with folks like you instead.

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                • #23
                  I'm waiting...

                  I've been using Nvidia graphics cards for several years and have been very satisfied. Nouveau driver development is interesting, but I won't try it until it is as good or better than Nvidia's proprietary driver.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by bug77 View Post
                    My point was exactly that: 9800GT and 9800GTX are slightly different chips, which is reflected in the performance shown using the proprietary driver. Yet there's like a 50% difference between the two when using nouveau. I don't see how that doesn't spell trouble.
                    Re-read the article introduction. The 9800GT was stuck at the boot clock speed, and the 9800GTX was successfully re-clocked to a higher speed by Nouveau. That is a very significant reason for the difference in the benchmarks between those cards in Nouveau.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by bug77 View Post
                      My point was exactly that: 9800GT and 9800GTX are slightly different chips, which is reflected in the performance shown using the proprietary driver. Yet there's like a 50% difference between the two when using nouveau. I don't see how that doesn't spell trouble.

                      As a former owner, I'm ROFL ATM at your second statement. 8800GT better then most new cards? Better than most entry level new cards, maybe. It's certainly not better than a GTX260, GTX460 or a GTX660Ti (I owned all of them) or their faster siblings. Again, my point was that if the GT220 is a member of the 200 series (I'm not sure, manufacturers often rebrand their previous generation into newer generation, low-end parts), the newest card in this comparison is four(!) generations old.
                      you didnt read that 9800gtx was underclocked ?
                      chinese and japanese are similar too if you ask me

                      also 4 generations ?
                      maybe on paper, but not in architecture

                      8800 was a revolution in gpu design, at least as far as nvidia is concerned
                      next step was in the 400 series
                      next step is in the 600 series, and only the high end part
                      but nothing revolutionary in them

                      also if you look at the TDP of a GTX 260 compared to a 8800gt, youl see most its gain is in the "put more stuff on the chip die" department
                      8800gt is in between a 240 and 250 bout in performance and power consumption
                      and if this card heats my room too much i dont wanna know how much an 460 does
                      (edit; according to wiki not by much, 460 that is, 260 buuuuurns)

                      also the low end cards in the newer series are utter crap
                      nvidias marketing nonsenses are a prime example of big companies confusing people
                      Last edited by gens; 01-04-2013, 10:55 PM.

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                      • #26
                        The OSS drivers work fine for general use (in most cases) but those who prefer higher-end or higher-performance cards choose the binary drivers for obvious reasons.

                        Neither's entirely satisfactory, and quite frankly, arguing in favor of throwing out one or the other is foolish and not well-founded. I've seen some catastrophic failures with each. Given the (insane) complexity of graphics cards and the secrecy surrounding the hardware, it's not remotely surprising that nouveau is where it is.

                        I think the efforts of the developers are underappreciated and could be vastly improved if NVidia would be more cooperative in providing information about their cards. Fat chance of that happening any time soon, however.

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                        • #27
                          Let reminds that majority of operating systems including Microsoft Windows installed from scratch use generic driver by default for common use which are no different than OSS drivers.
                          In that perspective, Nouveau developers deserved credits to support almost all Nvidia videocards hardware as possible rather than worrying about speed. Nouveau driver is much better than the legacy nv driver by a long shot with decent hardware acceleration. It is hardly surprising nouveau appears slower than Nvidia official driver knowing that other generic drivers from different operating system have similar performance.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by mirza View Post
                            It doesn't seem to be "much slower", rather "reasonably fast, but slower then proprietary". Regarding trolls above, stable OSS driver will be great, even if it is 10% slower (most people wouldn't notice).
                            Faster trash is still trash, no matter how people want to spin it. And it's not 10% slower, it's easily 20 - 30% slower and even more under different circumstances. And GPU drivers are real complex beasts; just because they return a 15% slower performance than the blob when underclocked does not (and will not) mean that these numbers will scale accordingly when reclocking support is finally (if ever) implemented.

                            Originally posted by mirza View Post
                            that companies tend to ignore.
                            Business 101. obsolescence drives demand. Demand drives revenue, revenue drives economies.

                            The only credit I'll give nouveau for is that it has reached a point where I will seriously consider not dumping it in preference of the blob for the next Linux install i'm attempting 3 weeks from now. Which is definitely much better than what I have got to say for RadeonSI.
                            Last edited by Sonadow; 01-05-2013, 01:20 AM.

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                            • #29
                              it in flames by using wrong voltages that they have to guess.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by bug77 View Post
                                Again, my point was that if the GT220 is a member of the 200 series (I'm not sure, manufacturers often rebrand their previous generation into newer generation, low-end parts), the newest card in this comparison is four(!) generations old.
                                Three generations old, according to http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/CodeNames - which is basically the same as what gens said. A lot of people still use one - eg https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...y/+bug/1000427 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...n/+bug/1014603 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...s/+bug/1090111

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