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Bickering Continues About NVIDIA Using DMA-BUF

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  • All of the stuff you mentioned is unfortunate, but legal.

    Nvidia using DMA_BUF is flat-out illegal.

    It's all about respecting software licences.
    Last edited by pingufunkybeat; 10-18-2012, 06:04 PM.

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    • Originally posted by GT220 View Post
      Face it, you know what I said is true, you GPL Nazis are killing Linux. Give yourselves a huge applause.

      You should also stop using your LCD monitors you know, the on screen display(OSD) runs proprietary software, it's clearly not respecting your rights. Ditto with LCD TVs, microwave ovens etc.

      Your motherboards runs proprietary BIOS/UEFI too, please don't use them, they don't respect your rights either.

      Don't even think about going to hospitals either, all the medical equipment there runs proprietary software and don't respect your rights.

      It's pretty amazing how much hypocrisy there is in the GPL Nazis here, they use proprietary software every day without throwing a huge fuss about it and yet act like they're privileged for anything.
      who's a nazi? as a jew i find that incredibly offensive and i shall be complaining to the appropriate authorities!

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      • Originally posted by GT220 View Post
        Like I said, your trollfu is the weakest, but keep trying, maybe when you realize you have no facts backing you up, you'd stop embarassing yourself.
        About:support, Fx 14
        Description: NVIDIA Corporation -- GeForce GTX 260/PCIe/SSE2
        Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
        GeForce GTX 260/PCIe/SSE2
        3.3.0 NVIDIA 302.17
        WebGL
        NVIDIA Corporation -- GeForce GTX 260/PCIe/SSE2 -- 3.3.0 NVIDIA 302.17
        Accelerated Windows: 1/1 OpenGL

        This is GTX 260 sp 216 with 1.7 GiB GDDR3

        I have manually overriden acceleration.

        By default, Nvidia proprietary driver is NOT accelerated under Firefox due to instability with some cards.

        A Pentium 4 era machine with IGP I posses, scrolls in Firefox just as fluid using intel opensource drivers, as proprietary nvidia driver. There are however problems when playing fullhd video, due to Firefox not having basic pixel acceleration support and blitting in software. Same HD video, for example, in any player that outputs to Xv, runs flawless on P4. And OpenGL up to 3.3 in software(up to 2.0 in hardware, full support)...

        Originally posted by GT220 View Post
        Face it, you know what I said is true, you GPL Nazis are killing Linux.
        “Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power”
        Benito Mussolini

        You fail at failing.
        Last edited by crazycheese; 10-18-2012, 06:13 PM.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post
          I'd imagine that would be the license text. If the Windows license states that anything linking to its code is considered a derivative work, then it is.
          Well, license agreements can only govern whatever copyright applies to, as license agreements are terms of the contract between the copyright holder and the licensee. The question is whether the Nvidia blob would use DMA-BUF as an API or whether it would derive from it.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by GT220 View Post
            how much hypocrisy there is in the GPL Nazis here
            The GPL is a proper license before the law. If you don't follow the law the copyright holders can sue you. Does that mean anything to you?

            It's funny how in those instances there are always so many people who are suddenly the experts on the GPL.

            Guys, if highly experienced people who create GPL code (almost) every day say nvidia can't use dma-buf the way they wanted, then there is a good chance that's actually correct.

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            • as a GNU fanboy i've been called a communist before but never a nazi.....

              i'm shaking with rage here [H]old me back!!

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              • Please kindly stop using Nvidia hardware then. It's not for hypocrites like you all.

                Please move to Intel IGPs/GPUs on Sandy Bridge, Ivy Bridge, Haswell, Broadwell, Skylake, Skymont etc.

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                • Don't let facts get in the way of his quest!

                  He is saving us from NAZIS! That's serious.

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                  • Originally posted by ChrisXY View Post
                    The GPL is a proper license before the law. If you don't follow the law the copyright holders can sue you. Does that mean anything to you?

                    It's funny how in those instances there are always so many people who are suddenly the experts on the GPL.

                    Guys, if highly experienced people who create GPL code (almost) every day say nvidia can't use dma-buf the way they wanted, then there is a good chance that's actually correct.
                    and with so many developers ... so many infact that some have died, some have ended up in prison and some have gone to live on a desert island it would be almost impossible to get them all to agree to change the licence .... gawd bless the GPL

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                    • Originally posted by GT220 View Post
                      Please kindly stop using Nvidia hardware then. It's not for hypocrites like you all.

                      Please move to Intel IGPs/GPUs on Sandy Bridge, Ivy Bridge, Haswell, Broadwell, Skylake, Skymont etc.

                      I don't use nvidia hardware, the only time i come across it is when i pull some old 8800gt out of the garbage

                      and even then they're usually shit overheated and ready to go back in the garbage

                      infact i know of cottage industries that attempt to reflow them - to be fair sometimes it does work

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                      • Originally posted by mememe View Post
                        Well, license agreements can only govern whatever copyright applies to, as license agreements are terms of the contract between the copyright holder and the licensee. The question is whether the Nvidia blob would use DMA-BUF as an API or whether it would derive from it.
                        The whole defence for Nvidia's driver (and the reason why Linus tolerates it, despite hating it) is that it is a driver which runs on several operating systems and as such it is not derivative of the Linux kernel, it merely interfaces with it. It does the same thing on all systems, so it can run just fine without Linux. It ran on Windows before it ran on Linux, and it can run just fine without Linux, so there is a good argument that the current blob is not derivative of Linux kernel code.

                        However, if you start adding functionality which uses specialised internal functions of the GPLed kernel, which only exists in the Linux kernel, and for the express purpose of tight cooperation with other (partly GPL) drivers which only exist inside the Linux kernel, then it is hard to argue that these parts of your blob are not derivative work of the kernel. You can argue the X11 also works on BSDs, so it's not derivative of that, but DMA_BUF is Linux-only, and GPL to boot. You can't claim it's generic: without Linux, it cannot possibly work. It was especially written only to work with a special, Linux-only subsystem. That's as derivative as you can get. And if you GPL those parts as per licence requirements, then you have to GPL it all.

                        Nvidia's strategy worked well as long as they didn't touch any part of Linux and did it all themselves. Optimus screwed them up -- you can't avoid GPL code, and you can't simply wish the licence away like they are trying to.
                        Last edited by pingufunkybeat; 10-18-2012, 06:28 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
                          The whole defence for Nvidia's driver (and the reason why Linus tolerates it, despite hating it) is that it is a driver which runs on several operating systems and as such it is not derivative of the Linux kernel, it merely interfaces with it. It does the same thing on all systems.

                          However, if you start adding functionality which uses specialised internal functions of the GPLed kernel, which only exists in the Linux kernel, and for the express purpose of tight cooperation with other (partly GPL) drivers which only exist inside the Linux kernel, then it is hard to argue that these parts of your blob are not derivative work of the kernel. And if you GPL those, as per licence requirements, then you have to GPL it all.

                          Nvidia's strategy worked well as long as they didn't touch any part of Linux and did it all themselves. Optimus screwed them up -- you can't avoid GPL code, and you can't simply wish the licence away like they are trying to.

                          to be fair linus and all the other devs have to tolerate people using the nvidia blob. Its your system and you can put what the hell you like on it, The 'module taints kernel' messages and 'fuck you nvidia' is all they can do

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                          • Of course, but it's a potential problem for distributors. Linus has specified that he (unlike Alan Cox) does not consider the current Nvidia blob to be in violation of the GPL, for the reasons I listed.

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                            • Originally posted by GT220 View Post
                              Please kindly stop using Nvidia hardware then. It's not for hypocrites like you all.

                              Please move to Intel IGPs/GPUs on Sandy Bridge, Ivy Bridge, Haswell, Broadwell, Skylake, Skymont etc.
                              Actually my new notebook has the ivy bridge intel gpu and a hd 7970m with amd's enduro. I'm looking forward to using it with dma-buf in the not so far future.


                              <troll>U jelly because your beloved superior nvidia cards run on too proprietary drivers to use it?</troll>


                              Theoretically, how many people directly hold copyright for code used for dma-buf? Are there considerations to get them all together and sign some document that they won't sue nvidia for using prime/dma-buf, of course totally unsupported? Do they not want it? Would nvidia not do it?
                              Last edited by ChrisXY; 10-18-2012, 06:46 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
                                Of course, but it's a potential problem for distributors. Linus has specified that he (unlike Alan Cox) does not consider the current Nvidia blob to be in violation of the GPL, for the reasons I listed.
                                i know of at least two distros that ship amd/nvidia blobs on their iso.. xbmc live and openelec

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