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Bickering Continues About NVIDIA Using DMA-BUF

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  • #31
    They can use the entire MESA, Intel's work and LLVM with a proper and full back-end, and create very easy, an Open Driver with 70-90% the performance of the Closed one. Then they can use the latest OGL4 work as a Closed Extension Driver for the Open one. When we say Extension Driver we mean only Shader Compilers, FX and Programs for the Rasterizer(synthesizer), not any Driver Functionality like memory management, that should be Open.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Rigaldo View Post
      No, people will probably not start jumping to nouveau. And if they do, many will have serious issues and won't care much about whether it's open or not when they just out of it, or from Linux in general. This won't help opensource in anyway, maybe hurt it though.
      People who don't care about open source are going to use more closed source?

      Well, I wonder in how far losing these people will hurt open source.

      Originally posted by Rigaldo View Post
      And NVIDIA will NOT opensource their driver. Heck, even if their management wanted to, they couldn't.
      The world doesn't spin around NVidia. Neither does Linux.

      Originally posted by log0 View Post
      Linux Kernel is GPL2 period. Don't like open source? Go somewhere else.
      Word.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by alexThunder View Post
        People who don't care about open source are going to use more closed source?

        Well, I wonder in how far losing these people will hurt open source.



        The world doesn't spin around NVidia. Neither does Linux.



        Word.
        More users alone can help open source. It gives more power and influence on let's say .. NVIDIA.
        No users means your demands will go on deaf ears. And it's natural .. -.-
        Not nice, but natural.

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        • #34
          ...

          Originally posted by LLStarks View Post
          Alan Cox is an asshole.

          I have an Optimus laptop and as things stand, I will never get the expected performance out of my GT 555M on Linux.

          Nouveau's use of dma-buf is not a solution. It works, but it's as slow as using the Intel GPU. Plus, the power management puts my card in an unusable state when I want to reboot into Windows.

          I SHOULD BE ABLE TO USE THE NVIDIA BLOB AND DMA-BUF AS I SEE FIT FOR MY OWN PERSONAL NEEDS.
          Guess next time you will not buy something that is made by a company who has such horrible support, I always buy intel for the simple fact that I know it will work... I have no complaints graphically...my dual core celeron Sandy Bridge can play xonotic at mostly high settings....

          Alan Cox wrote some code, and he is deciding what happens to it, I guess you can always spend your time developing your alternative to this problem instead of making pointless insults of someone who has done great work for many people...

          Originally posted by Rigaldo View Post
          More users alone can help open source. It gives more power and influence on let's say .. NVIDIA.
          No users means your demands will go on deaf ears. And it's natural .. -.-
          Not nice, but natural.
          It won't influence nvidia at all to change their ways if everyone just lets them have their way, because they won't contribute anything to open source, instead we can help open source more by telling people to use better supported open source drivers/hardware. If we have many people ditching nvidia for intel or amd, maybe nvidia will realize that usability is also as important as power. Just an opinion...
          Last edited by dm-xterm; 10-18-2012, 02:41 PM.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Rigaldo View Post
            More users alone can help open source. It gives more power and influence on let's say .. NVIDIA.
            No users means your demands will go on deaf ears. And it's natural .. -.-
            Not nice, but natural.
            Yeah, I can see how a bigger amount of Linux users using NVidia blobs will make NVidia to go open.

            Or to be more general: More people not caring about open source and using proprietary software will do more good to open source than actually having and keeping things open?

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            • #36
              Are Nvidia being spoiled brats again? Whats new.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Rigaldo View Post
                ...
                You really don't get it. Want to use open source? Respect the fscking license at least! No need to call others names. Believe it or not but linux still would be doing well even if nvidia ceased to exist tomorrow.

                Btw nvidia are already violating linux kernel license, no matter if this symbols are changed or not. And they should really let their lawyers handle this and not the devs.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by LLStarks View Post
                  Alan Cox is an asshole.

                  I have an Optimus laptop and as things stand, I will never get the expected performance out of my GT 555M on Linux.

                  Nouveau's use of dma-buf is not a solution. It works, but it's as slow as using the Intel GPU. Plus, the power management puts my card in an unusable state when I want to reboot into Windows.

                  I SHOULD BE ABLE TO USE THE NVIDIA BLOB AND DMA-BUF AS I SEE FIT FOR MY OWN PERSONAL NEEDS.
                  YOU bought an Optimus laptop.
                  YOU are an asshole.

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                  • #39
                    A question - is it possible to make this available via syscalls?

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                    • #40
                      Agreed

                      Originally posted by whitecat View Post
                      YOU bought an Optimus laptop.
                      YOU are an asshole.
                      I just made an account because his comment was pointless, I was hoping I wouldn't be the only one to notice his problems were all his fault... "lets buy an expensive piece of equipment without confirming everything will work how I want, then blame someone else"...

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                      • #41
                        The trouble of integrating of or integrating into 3rd party software is inevitable attribute of any closed source (proprietary) license.

                        I don't see it as a problem of GPL. The license just does what it was designed to do - to protect freedom. It prevents the hostile takeover.


                        And anyone claiming how "BSD would be better" have definitely zero clue. MacOSX is a living proof of your stupidity.

                        Had Linux been BSD licensed, Nvidia would have forked, mixed it into own drivers and release it as Nvidia OS, under proprietary license.


                        Nvidia does do very good drivers. But current situation is just their own fault in choosing wrong (proprietary) license.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by dm-xterm View Post
                          I just made an account because his comment was pointless, I was hoping I wouldn't be the only one to notice his problems were all his fault... "lets buy an expensive piece of equipment without confirming everything will work how I want, then blame someone else"...
                          You need to shut up. NOW.

                          I specifically bought an Optimus laptop to research approaches to solving Optimus on Linux. Why else did I spend so much time on the Bumblebee and Ubuntu Hybrid Graphics team?

                          I also had expectations that PRIME and dma-buf would be adequate. The situation is arguably worse today since Nvidia is locked out of dma-buf and are making even their high-end GTX chips Optimus-only.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by log0 View Post
                            You really don't get it. Want to use open source? Respect the fscking license at least! No need to call others names. Believe it or not but linux still would be doing well even if nvidia ceased to exist tomorrow.

                            Btw nvidia are already violating linux kernel license, no matter if this symbols are changed or not. And they should really let their lawyers handle this and not the devs.
                            Personally I'd only call names people calling others names.
                            I respect all Linux developers of course, but I believe they could have had a better stance(more diplomatic). Who am I to know though. But mostly some anti-anything people could have a better stance.
                            Yes, Linux wouldn't change much if NVIDIA ceased to exist, wouldn't say the same about their drivers ceasing to exist though ..

                            **Haha, "fscking" .. fsck .. lol Took me a moment to get it.


                            Originally posted by alexThunder View Post
                            Yeah, I can see how a bigger amount of Linux users using NVidia blobs will make NVidia to go open.

                            Or to be more general: More people not caring about open source and using proprietary software will do more good to open source than actually having and keeping things open?
                            So you take it as a given that they won't care about open source. Not so unlikely, not all of them at least, and it would also mean more people who DO care. Well, making parts of the driver open could potentially have many benefits(instant support for new X.org, kernels, out of the box driver, etc). Maybe they'd care about that. Or MAYBE about the ones creating the thing with this larger user base?
                            Or maybe they should drop their driver altogether, like some people here seem to suggest. That'd help nouveau too, now wouldn't it?

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by LLStarks View Post
                              You need to shut up. NOW.

                              I specifically bought an Optimus laptop to research approaches to solving Optimus on Linux. Why else did I spend so much time on the Bumblebee and Ubuntu Hybrid Graphics team?

                              I also had expectations that PRIME and dma-buf would be adequate. The situation is arguably worse today since Nvidia is locked out of dma-buf and are making even their high-end GTX chips Optimus-only.
                              If you bought it to research approaches.... if did your research, would the result be opensource or closed source?

                              Because optimus does not exist in first place due to nvidia being closed source; and not releasing anything... its only them who are capable, yet they refused.

                              GPL is designed to prevent exactly this, to prevent proprietary monopoly.

                              And if they want to integrate anything tightly with open kernel, they should keep all relevant parts open as well. The kernel is protected by the license against abuse.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by asdx
                                No, open source or provide specs or GTFO.
                                you are such a closed minded zealot ! amd gives specs , how well does the opensource driver work compared to the amd or nvidia blob ? do you really think specs would change the situation for noveau that mutch ?even with specs it would take years to be on par with the blob !

                                users simply need the blob for everything more than basic 2d usage . And nobody buys an optimus laptops for that purpose ! alan cox move is a hit in the face for linux users . that's a fact .

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