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  • #16
    Originally posted by entropy View Post
    Sorry, that was obviously wrong.
    I messed it up while editing that line. :/
    I wanted to express my disappointment about the docs covering
    Tegra only and only a rather tiny fraction of the chip capabilities.

    I agree it is a good thing, in terms of "not a bad thing",
    but it really doesn't sound too promising to me.
    Why don't they release more complete docs?
    And why do they refuse to do the same for the desktop asics?
    It's possible they cannot release docs for their desktop card ASICS due to 3rd party IP restrictions. If they can bring the design work inhouse and use as little 3rd party IP as possible then they could be able to open up documentation for the 3d
    parts.

    I concur with the poster above that nVidia should release documentation for their older cards that are at end of life so that we as a community can support ourselves by having an open driver so we can continue to use these cards
    Last edited by DeepDayze; 09-21-2012, 07:39 PM.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by DeepDayze View Post
      It's possible they cannot release docs for their desktop card ASICS due to 3rd party IP restrictions. If they can bring the design work inhouse and use as little 3rd party IP as possible then they could be able to open up documentation for the 3d
      parts.
      They've made noises about integrating ARM on the desktop side too, which makes me wonder whether they might move the low-level stuff into an embedded firmware blob and document a higher-level host interface. Of course, the cynical side of me says that they'd then wrap that firmware in encryption/DRM and sell feature unlock codes a la carte (SLI? $25. Overclocking? $50. Autodesk-certified mode? $500. Full double precision compute performance? $1500.).

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      • #18
        Originally posted by DeepDayze View Post
        I concur with the poster above that nVidia should release documentation for their older cards that are at end of life so that we as a community can support ourselves by having an open driver so we can continue to use these cards
        especially the firmware technology from their Quadro series, since hopefully that would still work for todays cards

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        • #19
          Originally posted by boast View Post
          especially the firmware technology from their Quadro series, since hopefully that would still work for todays cards
          Maybe a utility to do the firmware dumps for just about any nvidia card would be great to have so that we can use the firmware with nouveau, and if nvidia can provide some documentation about the entry points and such do the nouveau devs can implement features

          Originally posted by Ex-Cyber View Post
          They've made noises about integrating ARM on the desktop side too, which makes me wonder whether they might move the low-level stuff into an embedded firmware blob and document a higher-level host interface. Of course, the cynical side of me says that they'd then wrap that firmware in encryption/DRM and sell feature unlock codes a la carte (SLI? $25. Overclocking? $50. Autodesk-certified mode? $500. Full double precision compute performance? $1500.).
          lol wouldn't be surprised at that

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          • #20
            I was like "WOW desktop cards" but then i realized it was for tegra.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by DeepDayze View Post
              It's possible they cannot release docs for their desktop card ASICS due to 3rd party IP restrictions. If they can bring the design work inhouse and use as little 3rd party IP as possible then they could be able to open up documentation for the 3d parts.
              I can understand having IP restrictions on the implementation, but not for the interface. I thought that was settled in oracle vs. google.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by TheBlackCat View Post
                I can understand having IP restrictions on the implementation, but not for the interface. I thought that was settled in oracle vs. google.
                depends on whether they got someone to initially write the interface and they don't actually own the ipr.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by DeepDayze View Post
                  I concur with the poster above that nVidia should release documentation for their older cards that are at end of life so that we as a community can support ourselves by having an open driver so we can continue to use these cards
                  This assumes such documentation exists and could quickly be released. I very much doubt that's the case. Which means they'd first need to go assembling various internal documents, sanitize them and then shape them into a form that can be released. Too much effort for EOL hardware, I don't see any incentive to do it.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Naib View Post
                    depends on whether they got someone to initially write the interface and they don't actually own the ipr.
                    IANAL, but it seems pretty clear after the oracle case that nobody can own an interface. That may change if oracle gets its way, but currently interfaces are not protected by intellectual property law.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Gusar View Post
                      This assumes such documentation exists and could quickly be released. I very much doubt that's the case. Which means they'd first need to go assembling various internal documents, sanitize them and then shape them into a form that can be released. Too much effort for EOL hardware, I don't see any incentive to do it.
                      True, as all they need to do with such old documentation is to get it cleared by their legal department first, much in the same fashion AMD did with their docs. At minimum they should release the interface and programming docs (minus any 3rd party info)

                      However they should be able to release docs for their not quite so old cards (eg, GeForce 5,6,7)

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by TheBlackCat View Post
                        IANAL, but it seems pretty clear after the oracle case that nobody can own an interface. That may change if oracle gets its way, but currently interfaces are not protected by intellectual property law.
                        Interfaces can still, in principle, be patented. However, the Oracle ruling is arguably the last nail in the coffin of the idea that API/ABIs can be copyrighted under US law. Frankly I'm still kind of floored that anyone thought Oracle even had a chance on that claim. 17 USC 102(b) and Lotus v. Borland were pretty big hints.

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                        • #27
                          It's getting chilly in hell

                          I would like to see hardware documentation for GeForce though.

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