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Potential Good News For NVIDIA Optimus On Linux

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  • #16
    Originally posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post
    Do you even seen this "patch"? nVidia employee talk only about using it with Tegra, not on Optimus hardware.
    Quoting the very link you provided:
    We'd only use the dma-buf interface in the
    case of interoperating with the Intel device.
    So you're flat out wrong here. Talk about shooting oneself in the foot...

    Originally posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post
    nVidia doesn't care about desktop usage at all, remember?
    Repeating something over and over does not make it true.

    Originally posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post
    Yes, and another proof of that: nVidia even doesn't make VDPAU fully compatible with compositing (if you disagree - argue with nVidia employee about that, not with me).
    Intel has tearing issues with Sandy Bridge. By your logic it means Intel doesn't care about the desktop at all then.

    Originally posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post
    And get only one display.
    And here you show that in addition to all your other BS, you're also clueless. I said "by disabling *dynamic* twinview", not disabling twinview as a whole.

    Originally posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post
    nVidia lag behind Intel and AMD in xrandr support
    Only if you ignore the 302.17 driver.

    Originally posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post
    and still doesn't have official support of Optimus in proprietary driver.
    Neither does AMD for their muxless tech. All they have is a hack.

    Originally posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post
    I not understand why you so afraid to face it and trying to argue.
    Dude, as long as you keep talking as if AMD has a solution (they don't), you're in no position to talk about "being afraid to face stuff".

    Originally posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post
    I want to remind you: talk about Bumblebee in conversation about official vendor support is bullshit diversion too. Do you realize that?
    Do you realize that getting so hung up on the word "official" is a total nonsense argument? So what if AMD's thing is "official". It's still a hack that defeats the main purpose of muxless tech. To use your own words: I not understand why you so afraid to face it and trying to argue.

    But since you are so keen on the "official" word: Until xrandr1.5 is released X is incapable of properly supporting muxless tech. So all Nvidia could do is provide either an AMD-like hack, or a Bumblebee-like hack. And since there's Bumblebee, Nvidia decided not to provide their own hack. This is their *official* stance, as can be read in their PR response to Linus' middle finger.


    Basically, you've lost this argument through and through. You haven't addressed the main issue that started it all. And your own link proved you wrong. Even if you now write another post with all sorts of stuff, it will still not address the main issue. So you lose. Instead of trying to argue, face it!

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Gusar View Post
      So you're flat out wrong here.
      So all Nvidia could do is provide either an AMD-like hack, or a Bumblebee-like hack.
      You miss inconvenient (for your logic) option: at first provide official "hack" implementation that give hardware support to customers, and then provide proper implementation. This is best option for vendor who cares about customers, isn't it? But not for nVidia...
      Originally posted by Gusar View Post
      And since there's Bumblebee, Nvidia decided not to provide their own hack.
      At first 2.5 years ago they said "fuck off!" to Optimus-hardware owners. That why Bumblebee was born. You, as expected, doesn't remember this.
      Originally posted by Gusar View Post
      Originally posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post
      nVidia doesn't care about desktop usage at all, remember?
      Repeating something over and over does not make it true.
      Ok, facts will talk instead of me:
      Originally posted by Gusar View Post
      Intel has tearing issues with Sandy Bridge. By your logic it means Intel doesn't care about the desktop at all then.
      One issue doesn't make difference. Bunch of issues (like lack of proper xrandr support for years, lack of hybrid graphics support for years, lack of tear-free user experience under compositing environment for years, etc.) make the difference. Big difference in nVidia case.
      Originally posted by Gusar View Post
      And here you show that in addition to all your other BS, you're also clueless. I said "by disabling *dynamic* twinview", not disabling twinview as a whole.
      What you propose? Re-configure xorg.conf by hands at every (for example) connetion projector to the laptop?
      Originally posted by Gusar View Post
      Originally posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post
      nVidia lag behind Intel and AMD in xrandr support
      Only if you ignore the 302.17 driver.
      nVidia already implement xrandr 1.3 support, but they do that 3.5 years later AMD Catalyst Team. This is just fact. This fact mean - they lag behind Intel and AMD in xrandr 1.3 support. This is already happened and will never change.
      Originally posted by Gusar View Post
      Neither does AMD for their muxless tech. All they have is a hack.
      You may call it anything you want, but nVidia doesn't have even that in their driver. If user buy laptop with AMD hybrid graphics he may do 1-Click install in for example Jockey Ubuntu utility, but if user have laptop with nVidia Optimus, so... you know what he need to do
      Originally posted by Gusar View Post
      Dude, as long as you keep talking as if AMD has a solution (they don't)
      I use Bumblebee? No. I use vgaswitcheroo? No. If they doesn't have solution, how I switch GPU? Talking "they don't has solution" is simply ignoring position, nothing more.

      Comment


      • #18
        All these words and yet you *still* have the ridiculous fixation of the word "official" and *still* haven't addressed the main argument, which is that AMD's hack defeats the main purpose of muxless tech.

        I not understand why you so afraid to face it and trying to argue.

        Comment


        • #19
          There is no Linux desktop.

          Expecting companies to put in the time to implement features for anybody other than their customers (read: film / animation studios, HPC, etc.) is just kind of silly.

          And who in their right mind would buy a laptop with a discrete NVIDIA GPU and put Linux on it?

          The people at Valve must really have lost their minds trying to get into the Linux space.

          And if it's bad now, just wait until the transition to Wayland hits full swing.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Gusar View Post
            All these words and yet you *still* have the ridiculous fixation of the word "official"
            Compare Catalyst and Bumblebee installation/using switch. I hope someday you'll get the point of this word.
            Originally posted by Gusar View Post
            and *still* haven't addressed the main argument, which is that AMD's hack defeats the main purpose of muxless tech.
            Some priorities of driver for hybrid graphics:
            1. Ability to start X Server on MUX-less hardware.
            2. Ability to disable dGPU to save the battery. This is what you call "main purpose of muxless tech". Catalyst can do this, and you know that.
            3. If user need this - switch from iGPU to dGPU.
            nVidia driver is not capable even with item 1, so for Catalyst there is nothing to compete with.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post
              2. Ability to disable dGPU to save the battery. This is what you call "main purpose of muxless tech". Catalyst can do this, and you know that.
              Yeah, but the way it achieves that? To use the dGPU you have to restart X, which means closing all your apps. Then, when you're done using the AMD card, you have to close all apps *again* and restart X to run on the iGPU. So this supposed "better" solution because it's "official" requires you to restart X all the time.

              Now on Bumbleblee, once it's installed and you've adjusted select shortcuts to start specific apps with optirun, the experience is from then on seamless. Bumblebee will automatically enable/disable the dGPU, no X restarts required. *That* is the main purpose of muxless tech - saving power by running only select apps on the dGPU. While AMD's hack is nothing more than old-school switching between GPUs.

              Originally posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post
              Compare Catalyst and Bumblebee installation/using switch.
              I just did. Your supposed "better" official solution is a lot more hassle than Bumblebee is.
              Last edited by Gusar; 07-01-2012, 05:51 AM.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Gusar View Post
                To use the dGPU you have to restart X, which means closing all your apps.
                In case of nVidia driver X server even doesn't launch, so there is nothing to close or restart. From typical user point of view system is just broken right after driver installation.
                Originally posted by Gusar View Post
                Now on Bumbleblee, once it's installed and you've adjusted select shortcuts
                This is the key difference. Do you feel it? Now you going to say something like "bro, this is very easy, any user know about this!" Yes, this is easy when you at first install driver that doesn't work, get not running X server, boot from LiveCD or flash drive, going to Google, find info about Optimus on Linux, uninstall not working driver using chroot or recovery mode, install Bumbleblee, and once it's installed and you've adjusted select shortcuts to start specific apps with optirun, the experience is from then on seamless! Finally!
                Very, very easy! nVidia sooooo care about Linux desktop!
                Originally posted by Gusar View Post
                *That* is the main purpose of muxless tech - saving power by running only select apps on the dGPU.
                You compare Catalyst and Bumbleblee. I compare this driver and this driver, and nothing more (not without reason, as I hope you understand now).

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post
                  In case of nVidia driver X server even doesn't launch, so there is nothing to close or restart.
                  Err, the point of muxless tech is that the environment (X in the case of Linux) runs on the iGPU! Which works just fine on Optimus machines.

                  Originally posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post
                  You compare Catalyst and Bumbleblee. I compare this driver and this driver, and nothing more (not without reason, as I hope you understand now).
                  Yes, I fully understand the reason - you constrain the rules to those that allow you to make an argument, because otherwise you would have no argument. Which is (you shouldn't be surprised what will follow now) yet another of your BS tactics.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    And you completely ignored second paragraph of my previous message.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post
                      And you completely ignored second paragraph of my previous message.
                      You got me!! Which means you've finally scored a victory!! Go you!!

                      Well, if it weren't for the thing where installation is a *one time thing* while AMD's hack is a constant inconvenience with it's requirement to restart X all the time. This fact should've been obvious, that's why I didn't explicitly address it, but you of course have to count your victories. Too bad for you I've just now taken away this one victory you had.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Gusar View Post
                        Err, the point of muxless tech is that the environment (X in the case of Linux) runs on the iGPU! Which works just fine on Optimus machines.
                        Yes it does, but it breaks when installing the proprietary driver. Then X does not launch at all (usually, you may also end up without 3D acceleration or in an OpenGL 1.4 fallback with "Direct Rendering: No") unless you use Bumblebee.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by AlbertP View Post
                          Yes it does, but it breaks when installing the proprietary driver.
                          You do something you shouldn't and stuff breaks, that's kind of a "duh" moment. Dealing with Optimus on Linux requires you to inform yourself about some things prior to diving in. This is not ideal, but I never disputed that Bumblebee is anything more than a hack.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Gusar View Post
                            Dealing with Optimus on Linux requires you to inform yourself about some things prior to diving in.
                            Wow, you said that.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post
                              Wow, you said that.
                              It surprises you that, unlike you, I don't pretend solutions exist where in reality there are only hacks?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Slow down! Gusar, do you get difference between official vendor support and not-official? (If you forgot, I remind you: not-official support "requires you to inform yourself about some things prior to diving in".)

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