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Valve's Gabe Newell Talks Linux Steam Client, Source Engine

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  • Originally posted by Vax456 View Post
    I can't ++ this enough.

    Please, for the sake of Phoronix's quality, leave your personal opinions and your beer tasting out of these articles. Those belong in a different section on Phoronix that's clearly labelled "Michael's Online Journal" or "Michael's Blog", or post your thoughts and feeling in the forum for the article.
    *snip*
    Thank you. That's how constructive criticism is done.

    Originally posted by allquixotic View Post
    You don't have to use Steam. No one is going to make you. I'm more interested in what Steam will do in terms of more developers and users flocking to Linux, which will improve the platform across the board, both for free software and otherwise.
    Yes, this is exactly what I'm most excited about too. I like Steam, Valve and their games, but I'm more excited by the potential ripple effect of a BIG PC game distributor endorsing the platform. It should focus more attention on linux as a viable platform, and could improve things across the board.

    Comment


    • Oh yeah, Michael, one further addendum.

      Stop writing in the first person.

      I want you to recall one of the many times Stephen Colbert gets in front of the camera and takes all the glory instead of the person he's interviewing.

      Now I want you to picture a person doing that in real life, does it subconsciencly, and does it every single minute of the day. Most people would call that guy a self-centered douchebag.

      I'm not calling YOU a self-centered douchebag. I've never met you and I'm sure you're a cool guy, but you certainly come off as a self-centered douchebag when reading these articles.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Kamikaze View Post
        Thank you. That's how constructive criticism is done.[
        I know that one is pointed at me, and like I said, I and many others have tried being constructive before with no results after many years, if being nice about it doesn't work then it's time to try a new tactic.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Kivada View Post
          I know that one is pointed at me, and like I said, I and many others have tried being constructive before with no results after many years, if being nice about it doesn't work then it's time to try a new tactic.
          Being an ass isn't going to work either, and just makes it easier to ignore you. You've got me halfway rooting for Michael right now, and that's not where i was yesterday.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by allquixotic View Post
            You don't have to use Steam. No one is going to make you. I'm more interested in what Steam will do in terms of more developers and users flocking to Linux, which will improve the platform across the board, both for free software and otherwise.

            Think of it like you're a politician, and there's a bill that's going to pass into law, and you don't like 60% of it, but 40% of it is extremely beneficial to you or your constituents. Do you vote in favor?
            Yeap, that's my thoughts as well. I tried Steam once and never again, and will definitely never return to it. But if it attracts more users to GNU/Linux, then it will be an incentive for developers to port their games here, not necessarily using Steam for distribution. So, in essence, it's a crude tool that nevertheless helps to achieve the desired results.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
              Being an ass isn't going to work either, and just makes it easier to ignore you. You've got me halfway rooting for Michael right now, and that's not where i was yesterday.
              Eh, I'm just as if I was in person, I don't suffer fools well at all and having to repeat myself ad nauseam causes me to write with contempt, but I mean well no matter how much of a bastard I may come across as to those that are easily offended.

              Besides, It's scientifically proven the swearing is good for you http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...hy-do-we-swear

              http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1373098.html

              http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1435129.html

              Now though at this point I still doubt Larabel will ever improve the site, but thats never stopped me before.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Kivada View Post
                Eh, I'm just as if I was in person, I don't suffer fools well at all and having to repeat myself ad nauseam causes me to write with contempt, but I mean well no matter how much of a bastard I may come across as to those that are easily offended.
                Just because you're also an ass in person doesn't give you the right to be one online.

                Anyway, I don't think I'm easily offended. I just dislike your posts for many of the same reasons you dislike Michael's articles. I feel like you are giving a bad name to the people who think Michael should be doing a better job. Now when we point out how he can improve things he just has to point to your posts and lump us in with you to ignore what we're saying.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Kivada View Post
                  Eh, I'm just as if I was in person, I don't suffer fools well at all and having to repeat myself ad nauseam causes me to write with contempt, but I mean well no matter how much of a bastard I may come across as to those that are easily offended.

                  Besides, It's scientifically proven the swearing is good for you http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...hy-do-we-swear

                  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1373098.html

                  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1435129.html

                  Now though at this point I still doubt Larabel will ever improve the site, but thats never stopped me before.

                  Those article indicates that it is beneficial for those who do swearing, not the one receiving the swearing.

                  And also from one of very same articles,


                  There is a catch, though: The more we swear, the less emotionally potent the words become, Stephens cautions. And without emotion, all that is left of a swearword is the word itself, unlikely to soothe anyone's pain.


                  Excessive swearing/whining does not help you nor everyone else reading the forum.



                  That said, what you are doing is, rather futile. It is proven repeatedly that using positive words bring much stronger motivations than using negative words.

                  It means, you had already used the best possible way to try to change what the author behaves, and obviously it failed as we see. I honestly do not believe using worse method would magically bring better result. Instead of listening to whining, the author may just ban you and other folks from the site (and from how he responses to criticisms, very unfortunately he would be more inclined to choose that 'easy' way instead of confronting his serious problems like a real man.)

                  I really wish he becomes more 'professional', but oh well you can't ask too much from people generally.







                  Also, for all of you guys.... I think you guys completely misunderstand how Valve operates.


                  From what I was reading from several years of articles, including the problematic ones from past, it is nothing special. It seems Valve indeed began to work on Linux as early as 2007 (which is something incredible considering how niche the platform was. There was no Android or any serious Linux-based platforms at that time.) But what you guys must realize is that there is no hierarchy in Valve.


                  Yes, you read it. There is NO hierarchy in Valve.


                  I assume you guys have jobs or at least did some intern. Your boss tells you to do something. You do it.
                  If you don't do it. You either need to present him/her valid reason(s) or risk getting fired or similar circumstances.

                  Inside Valve, this does not happen. People do stuffs whatever they like. If they get bored or feel it is not right, they stop doing it, and Gabe just does not care. He does not control his employees for what they are working on. Projects can be stalled for years if no one interests in working on, while others are being done very fast if a lot of people work on; there are no plans nor guides.


                  The result is obviously 'Valve' time. Half Life Episode 3 has been announced in 2006, promising 2007 Christmas release, and after nearly 6 years we are still waiting for it.


                  Team Fortress 2 was actually announced in 1998, and it was finally released on 2007, after 9 years of delaying and re-creating assets.


                  On the other hand, Valve initially had little interest in PS3, even Gabe said 'it sucks'. But suddenly, he began to like PS3 and Portal 2 came out with Steam on PS3. It is just because, Gabe and others just happened to find interesting things on PS3, so they decided to change their minds and worked hard on it. Obviously other projects including Linux and Episode 3 should had been delayed again because of people shifting into more interesting works.


                  That said, it is rather pointless whether Valve announce their vision about Linux or not. Even if they post a huge, big penguin and saying "STEAM FOR LINUX COMING SOON", it literally means nothing. It can be altered and delayed whatever Valve people imply. There can be such a big announcement and we would have to wait about 10 years to get a working native client, or, out of blue, they might just start beta for Steam Linux client without any warnings.


                  All what Michael confirmed is that there has been works done on Linux, and recently the work has been accelerated because Gabe got interest on the Linux work and there are some initial results. Nothing more, nothing less.

                  Even if Valve comes out and say "we have no plan for releasing Linux client for now" like 2010, still both Michael and Valve are right. Valve people have no plan, because they don't make plans in the first place. If you ask same question about Episode 3, the answer would be very similar/same like "we have no plan for releasing Episode 3 for now" for very same reason.

                  All dramas have produced because....


                  1.) Michael Larabel (still) has zero clue on Valve corporate culture, making wrong assumptions with terrible, poorly-written articles.

                  2.) Many people also have no clue on Valve either, proceeded to get angry by Michael's 'lies".


                  Indeed Michael himself is the main cause of troubles, but it does not mean rest of us are free from blame.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Kivada View Post
                    Eh, I'm just as if I was in person, I don't suffer fools well at all and having to repeat myself ad nauseam causes me to write with contempt, but I mean well no matter how much of a bastard I may come across as to those that are easily offended.

                    Besides, It's scientifically proven the swearing is good for you http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...hy-do-we-swear

                    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1373098.html

                    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1435129.html

                    Now though at this point I still doubt Larabel will ever improve the site, but thats never stopped me before.

                    Those article indicates that it is beneficial for those who do swearing, not the one receiving the swearing.

                    And also from one of very same articles,


                    There is a catch, though: The more we swear, the less emotionally potent the words become, Stephens cautions. And without emotion, all that is left of a swearword is the word itself, unlikely to soothe anyone's pain.


                    Excessive swearing/whining does not help you nor everyone else reading the forum.



                    That said, what you are doing is, rather futile. It is proven repeatedly that using positive words bring much stronger motivations than using negative words.

                    It means, you had already used the best possible way to try to change what the author behaves, and obviously it failed as we see. I honestly do not believe using worse method would magically bring better result. Instead of listening to whining, the author may just ban you and other folks from the site (and from how he responses to criticisms, very unfortunately he would be more inclined to choose that 'easy' way instead of confronting his serious problems like a real man.)

                    I really wish he becomes more 'professional', but oh well you can't ask too much from people generally.







                    Also, for all of you guys.... I think you guys completely misunderstand how Valve operates.


                    From what I was reading from several years of articles, including the problematic ones from past, it is nothing special. It seems Valve indeed began to work on Linux as early as 2007 (which is something incredible considering how niche the platform was. There was no Android or any serious Linux-based platforms at that time.) But what you guys must realize is that there is no hierarchy in Valve.


                    Yes, you read it. There is NO hierarchy in Valve.


                    I assume you guys have jobs or at least did some intern. Your boss tells you to do something. You do it.
                    If you don't do it. You either need to present him/her valid reason(s) or risk getting fired or similar circumstances.

                    Inside Valve, this does not happen. People do stuffs whatever they like. If they get bored or feel it is not right, they stop doing it, and Gabe just does not care. He does not control his employees for what they are working on. Projects can be stalled for years if no one interests in working on, while others are being done very fast if a lot of people work on; there are no plans nor guides.


                    The result is obviously 'Valve' time. Half Life Episode 3 has been announced in 2006, promising 2007 Christmas release, and after nearly 6 years we are still waiting for it.


                    Team Fortress 2 was actually announced in 1998, and it was finally released on 2007, after 9 years of delaying and re-creating assets.


                    On the other hand, Valve initially had little interest in PS3, even Gabe said 'it sucks'. But suddenly, he began to like PS3 and Portal 2 came out with Steam on PS3. It is just because, Gabe and others just happened to find interesting things on PS3, so they decided to change their minds and worked hard on it. Obviously other projects including Linux and Episode 3 should had been delayed again because of people shifting into more interesting works.


                    That said, it is rather pointless whether Valve officially announces their vision about Linux or not. Even if they post a huge, big penguin and saying "STEAM FOR LINUX COMING SOON", it literally means nothing. It can be altered and delayed whatever Valve people imply. There can be such a big announcement and we would have to wait about 10 years to get a working native client, or, out of blue, they might just start beta for Steam Linux client without any warnings.


                    All what Michael confirmed is that there has been work done on Linux, and recently the work has been accelerated because Gabe got interest on the Linux work and there are some initial results. Nothing more, nothing less.

                    Even if Valve comes out and says "we have no plan for releasing Linux client for now" like 2010, still both Michael and Valve are right. Valve people have no plan, because they don't make plans in the first place. If you ask same question about Episode 3, the answer would be very similar/same like "we have no plan for releasing Episode 3 for now" for very same reason.

                    All dramas have produced because....


                    1.) Michael Larabel (still) has zero clue on Valve corporate culture, making wrong assumptions with terrible, poorly-written articles.

                    2.) Many people also have no clue on Valve either, proceeded to get angry by Michael's 'lies".


                    Indeed Michael himself is the main cause of troubles, but it does not mean rest of us are free from blame.
                    Last edited by kwm1800; 04-27-2012, 01:29 AM.

                    Comment


                    • For those who want to learn more about how Valve actually operates, read this excellent article.


                      http://m.garrettamini.com/2011/08/le...ners-paradise/

                      Comment


                      • For those who wants to know about how Valve operates:


                        http://m.garrettamini.com/2011/08/le...ners-paradise/

                        Comment


                        • @kwm1800

                          So basically you're saying everything Valve makes is Duke Nukem Forever? Great, so Steam for Linux will be out about the time my unborn children graduate...

                          Positive words didn't work for 4 years... Yeah it sucks he's across an ocean so I can't just wheatpaste* all the problems with his site to his car windows

                          I swear all the time and I'm usually bleeding yet feel no pain, whats that mean? Serious about that one, I don't even notice till theres a trail of blood, I've even had broken bones in my arm and foot and felt nothing, split a molar a while back, didn't hurt either. Super power = zombie like immunity to pain?

                          *causes no permanent damage, it's used to put up fliers and billboards on well, any surface, if on the car windows, he's not going anywhere till he chips it off with an ice scraper.

                          Comment


                          • Where the hell is the ignore / block button?
                            Trying to follow informative / useful posts and all I get is this guy whinging and trolling all the time......

                            Anyone got any idea of what time of year Michael Larabel's annual pilgrimage takes place?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by ZebCarnell View Post
                              Anyone got any idea of what time of year Michael Larabel's annual pilgrimage takes place?
                              Germany, Bavaria, beer... Got it?
                              Literally stands in line with "Chernobyl".
                              (See Michael's Twitter account information)

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Kivada View Post
                                @kwm1800

                                So basically you're saying everything Valve makes is Duke Nukem Forever? Great, so Steam for Linux will be out about the time my unborn children graduate...

                                Positive words didn't work for 4 years... Yeah it sucks he's across an ocean so I can't just wheatpaste* all the problems with his site to his car windows

                                I swear all the time and I'm usually bleeding yet feel no pain, whats that mean? Serious about that one, I don't even notice till theres a trail of blood, I've even had broken bones in my arm and foot and felt nothing, split a molar a while back, didn't hurt either. Super power = zombie like immunity to pain?

                                *causes no permanent damage, it's used to put up fliers and billboards on well, any surface, if on the car windows, he's not going anywhere till he chips it off with an ice scraper.


                                WOW WTF with these delayed posts? I thought they were failed to be posted. Can't even edit them to write "duplicated post". Such crappy forum system this site has...


                                So yeah, indeed like Duke Nukem Forever since, as I said, TF2 indeed took nearly 9 years. Good thing is unlike DNF, most of the time, we do get what we deserve from Valve tho.


                                More short and precise description, Valve is like.... group of hobbyists. They do things because they like it. When they don't like it, they don't do it. Simple as that.

                                Comment

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