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NVIDIA Talks Of Optimus Possibilities For Linux

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  • Originally posted by scjet View Post
    This is afterall, nothing but "theft" on the part of Microsoft, Nvidia, Intel, and Laptop manufactures' who agree to NOT put a GPU controlling feature in BIOS, or atleast they should NOT hardwire the "crappy" Intel "GMA HD GPU"on your high-end-graphics Laptops.
    Unless you have not fully explained and understood my quiestion here, and/or Sager does in fact have a model without this Optimess, then I will probably never buy a Sager Laptop again. I will continue looking elsewhere.
    You are free to express your dissatisfaction with how optimus is handled but could you stop being a nutjob about it?

    Originally posted by scjet View Post
    ->They said<-
    Hi Rick, all the current high-end models have nVIDIA Optimus technology.
    They only sell nvidia stuff? Is for example the radeon hd 7970M not high end enaugh?

    Originally posted by scjet View Post
    Intel, Nvidia, (and Microsoft especially) finally KILLED any potential and powerful Linux graphics capabilities.
    Buy a notebook with a radeon 7970 and you have powerful graphics and even if it has powerXpress you have a good chance it'll work on linux.

    Unfortunately it's pretty hard to actually find notebooks with the hd 7970m. Why seem Schenker, Eurocom and Alienware to be the only ones that have it at all?

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    • Originally posted by bridgman View Post
      Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
      While this is true, Id like to remind you that AMD also has vision of fglx being workstation-only driver
      .Not true. Workstation is first priority for fglrx but I don't think anyone has ever said workstation-only. If you turned the statement around and said that we see 3D workstation as fglrx-only that's probably more true, but it's a completely different statement.
      I think it used to be true, until Dell started shipping PCs with Ubuntu preinstalled. They made sure that there are now three distros that fglrx cares about (namely, RHEL, SLED, Ubuntu).

      Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
      And as of opensource driver, radeon gets too few actual company support and no possiblity for card buyers to support it, except code themself.
      This may seem to be the case because buying a Radeon graphics card does not make you an AMD customer. You need to convince the OEMs (AIB partners, large PC vendors) to demand open source Linux drivers. These are the ones that AMD will listen to.

      Indirectly, you can lobby hardware review sites to pay more attention to Linux. Manufacturers pay a lot of attention to those sites and take great efforts to cater for them, as they are important multipliers. A forum full of complaints will make AMD budge less than a single comment by Anand, Tom or Kyle.

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      • Charlie (SemiAccurate) has been converted for a while now, and doesn't look like the big names listen to him much.

        Or like what happened to Kano, he found a big GL bug, AMD didn't listen until C't reported the same much later.


        I guess we need AMD and friends' etc marketing depts to understand the true influence of Michael, Charlie, Kano etc

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        • The hardware review websites are grouped in tiers according to the number of page impressions.

          The tier 1 sites are Anandtech, Tom's Hardware and HardOCP.
          Tier 2 sites include e.g. Beyond3D, TPU, HotHardware, VR-Zone, ... and various regional sites like hardware.fr or ComputerBase
          SemiAccurate can hardly be called a tier 3 site.

          Tier 1-2 receive lots of attention from AMD/Intel/NVidia, tier 1-3 are usually seeded with hardware before launch. (That should tell us where Phoronix is according to hardware manufacturers...).

          So if Charlie criticizes some product for lack of Linux support, almost nobody will care. On the other hand, if one of the tier 1 sites or a number of tier 2 sites started basing their recommendations at least in part on Linux open source drivers, then you'd see things moving.

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          • Originally posted by chithanh View Post
            because buying a Radeon graphics card does not make you an AMD customer. You need to convince the OEMs (AIB partners, large PC vendors) to demand open source Linux drivers. These are the ones that AMD will listen to.
            man i hate this "bridgman" bullshit.

            in my 20 years of computer history i never get a graphic card from a OEM !

            i buy like 20 graphic cards in 20 years but always "retail" versions.

            people who really believe this bullshit are really brain-death!

            people with a single brain-cell buy the hardware in retail versions and build there own system.

            thats because you don't need to send the complete computer if 1 part is broken you just need to replace the part what is REAL broken.

            i go this professional way like 15 years now and it shows always its the best way.

            OEM's always put shit into your computer! and OEM's always give a shit about you!

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            • Don't confuse the OEM companies with hardware that was destined for OEMs but ended in the retail channel instead.

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              • Actually rather curiously, according to alexa.com phoronix gets almost exactly 10% of the daily visitor hits of Tom's. That's huge, a lot more than I thought.

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                • Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                  man i hate this "bridgman" bullshit.

                  in my 20 years of computer history i never get a graphic card from a OEM !

                  i buy like 20 graphic cards in 20 years but always "retail" versions.

                  people who really believe this bullshit are really brain-death!

                  people with a single brain-cell buy the hardware in retail versions and build there own system.

                  thats because you don't need to send the complete computer if 1 part is broken you just need to replace the part what is REAL broken.

                  i go this professional way like 15 years now and it shows always its the best way.

                  OEM's always put shit into your computer! and OEM's always give a shit about you!
                  Remember, "giving a $hit" means you *do* care in English. When you want to say "don't care" you would say "don't give a $hit".

                  Even buying retail cards, you're not buying the chip directly from AMD but buying a card from an OEM board manufacturer, aren't you ?
                  Last edited by bridgman; 05-16-2012, 07:12 PM.

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                  • Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                    Remember, giving a $hit is a "good" thing in English. It's *not* giving a $hit that is bad.
                    ......... damn... thank you very much...... i know it but writing is so much automatism... and cure such a wrong language usage is hard.

                    Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                    Even buying retail cards, you're not buying the chip directly from AMD but buying a card from an OEM board manufacturer, aren't you ?
                    right but not for all my cards i had a "radeon8500" back in time ATI build there own cards...
                    but today its this way.

                    but this makes no difference because the OEM board manufacturers do not make the drivers and the Retail cards are not OEM by "definition"

                    yes yes you still try to imagine this to me (OEM board manufacturers=OEM) no this is just wrong

                    for me (OEM=complete systems) and not "Retail hardware"

                    and no i don't have to deal with the board manufacturer company to get a better driver! because AMD is writing the drivers!

                    because of this your point is complete nonsense!

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                    • Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                      ......... damn... thank you very much...... i know it but writing is so much automatism... and cure such a wrong language usage is hard.
                      I'm pretty sure it's a bug in the language...

                      Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                      right but not for all my cards i had a "radeon8500" back in time ATI build there own cards...
                      but today its this way.
                      Yep, I agree that back then you could buy a retail ATI card, same way you can buy a retail AMD CPU today. Today all our consumer graphics cards are built and marketed by our board partners, and we only sell workstation boards directly.

                      Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                      but this makes no difference because the OEM board manufacturers do not make the drivers and the Retail cards are not OEM by "definition"

                      yes yes you still try to imagine this to me (OEM board manufacturers=OEM) no this is just wrong

                      for me (OEM=complete systems) and not "Retail hardware"
                      Ahh, so you don't mean "definition" you mean "your definition"... works for me.

                      Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                      and no i don't have to deal with the board manufacturer company to get a better driver! because AMD is writing the drivers! because of this your point is complete nonsense!
                      Remember the discussion was about whether a retail customer "buys from us" or buys from a <let's not call it an OEM> board manufacturer who buys chips in large quantities, understands their priorities for driver and OS support, and passes those priorities to us, just like a "complete system" manufacturer.
                      Last edited by bridgman; 05-16-2012, 07:43 PM.

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                      • @bridgman

                        Your complete OEM discussion is pointless. You can buy RETAIL FM1 cpus from AMD, boxed, absolutely no OEM involved. Which virtual OEM you would have to talk to when you want to use the GPU part?

                        Intel sells the same, they know they have to provide a driver, so they provide one.

                        It is not acceptable that AMD sells hardware which can not be used by Linux users the day you buy it. If you can not provide oss drivers, then provide binary drivers, no problem at all. But those have to work. And they have to work with current upstream not with legacy code.
                        Last edited by Kano; 05-16-2012, 08:37 PM.

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                        • Originally posted by Kano View Post
                          You can buy RETAIL FM1 cpus from AMD, boxed, absolutely no OEM involved. Which virtual OEM you would have to talk to when you want to use the GPU part?
                          Good point. I'll ask around about how customer preferences for those sales get rolled up.

                          Originally posted by Kano View Post
                          It is not acceptable that AMD sells hardware which can not be used by Linux users the day you buy it. If you can not provide oss drivers, then provide binary drivers, no problem at all. But those have to work.
                          We don't (sell hardware which can not be used by Linux users the day you buy it), and we do (provide binary drivers). The problem right now is that those drivers aren't getting through the system and board manufacturers to end users like the Windows drivers do, so for now we need to do a better job of posting them at launch time ourselves. The "retail APU" point you made might also help there.

                          Originally posted by Kano View Post
                          And they have to work with current upstream not with legacy code.
                          Most users live somewhere between "current upstream" and "legacy" - certainly supporting a wider range of kernel and distro releases will reach a wider range of users but not sure I agree the binary drivers "have to work" with current upstream on launch day.

                          I'll certainly agree with "it would be *better* if they worked with current upstream" but going forward the open source drivers should cover that anyways.
                          Last edited by bridgman; 05-16-2012, 09:29 PM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                            Most users live somewhere between "current upstream" and "legacy" - certainly supporting a wider range of kernel and distro releases will reach a wider range of users but not sure I agree the binary drivers "have to work" with current upstream on launch day.

                            I'll certainly agree with "it would be *better* if they worked with current upstream" but going forward the open source drivers should cover that anyways.
                            99.9% of these support upstream complaints would go away if you supported the current version of Fedora at launch time. That's all you need to do.

                            I'm not holding my breath on that happening any time soon, though, when you can't even provide proper Ubuntu support on time.

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                            • Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                              I'm pretty sure it's a bug in the language...
                              its a bug because shit isn't "good" if your child comes to you with shit in his hands you say a well its 'Good' to bring me shit?
                              its a illogical "bug" it says the opposite of what it should mean.

                              but yes its my problem i have to deal with it because ALL other humans use it in this illogical way.

                              Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                              Yep, I agree that back then you could buy a retail ATI card, same way you can buy a retail AMD CPU today. Today all our consumer graphics cards are built and marketed by our board partners, and we only sell workstation boards directly.
                              and again your words make no sense to me because: if i buy a very expensive workstation fireGL board i get the same "Shit(only hd7970 series)" Open-Source driver.
                              this means your words chance NOTHING! i need to buy maybe workstation 1000-5000 cards in a special deal to get any difference in the open-source driver.

                              in my feeling AMD just make fun of Linux users. because FireGL cards make no sense to open-source users at all. this really suck!

                              Why not sell opensource-cards in the same price range of the fireGL cards without support for the catalyst fireGL extensions and then spend the money on the opensource driver instead of the fireGL catalyst team ?

                              yes yes i know we already get your answer.... LOL AMD just make fun of Linux users.

                              Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                              Ahh, so you don't mean "definition" you mean "your definition"... works for me.
                              you don't get it the board manufacturer isn't the customer!
                              and the Retail market isn't the OEM market!
                              A Retail customer like me pay MORE MONEY for the SAME product compared to an "OEM customer"
                              Retail market is: extra stuff in the box extra support extra guarantee and extra service and most of the time a higher skilled customer.

                              I'm a AMD "Retail" customer for 15 years! i always buy my retail AMD CPU boxes and ATI Retail boxes and so one.

                              i even buy AMD if Intel is "better" but in fact what do i get fore it? a "Bridgman" calling me not a "AMD" customer because i'm not "big OEM" LOL...

                              really shame on you!

                              and KANO is right if you buy a "Radeon HD 6550D" there isn't any OEM company between the REAL customer and AMD.


                              Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                              Remember the discussion was about whether a retail customer "buys from us" or buys from a <let's not call it an OEM> board manufacturer who buys chips in large quantities, understands their priorities for driver and OS support, and passes those priorities to us, just like a "complete system" manufacturer.
                              in fact the large board manufacturer isn't the customer of AMD chips because for the board manufacturer its only a "through ongoing post"

                              if i and no one buys a amd chipset based card from the board manufacturer then the board manufacturer don't buy AMD chips!

                              because of this fact WE ARE THE CUSTOMERS ! and not the "board manufacturer "

                              and again the opensource driver is a big fail on a "Radeon HD 6550D" and no OEM is between this card and the customers!

                              the open-source driver is only OK for Retail-Desktop cards like my hd4770 because power management doesn't matter and performance is 60-70% of the catalyst.

                              then the "Fusion-APU" is a big fail with open-source drivers you only get 10% of the speed of the catalyst and power-management care for the most fusion-APU systems!

                              if you watch the performance of INTELs opensource driver no one would buy a "Radeon HD 6550D" system to use the opensource driver because you get much more speed with the opensource driver on the intel side.

                              for me its impossible to buy a AMD-APU system to use it for the "radeon" driver because AMD just make fun of (opensource)Linux users.
                              Last edited by Qaridarium; 05-16-2012, 11:01 PM.

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                              • Nice talkin and all, but I don't think Mr. Bridgeman is in position to change anything. This is the only single problem I have with AMD (which is the source of all other problems).

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