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Nouveau's OpenGL Performance Approaches The NVIDIA Driver

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  • #31
    Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
    This sounds like someone who has never actually tried the radeon drivers.

    Sorry if I'm wrong, but comparing them to VESA?

    They're plenty fine for desktop effects and other light uses.

    They're also fine for lightweight games, like most of what actually runs on Linux.

    They can only run Q3 at 200fps instead of 400fps.
    Indeed I haven't tried radeon drivers. I need proper Linux support, so I buy nvidia.
    I'm sure the driver is fine for "light" usage, but that's like driving a steam engine in the era of the TGV.
    I'm glad you're getting 200fps in Q3, but how much does an open source score in Unigine's Heaven?
    And it may not have occurred to you, but pushing unfinished drivers down people's throats is also part of the reason gaming is suffering on linux, too. Who's going to develop games for a platform that barely supports OpenGL2.1 on 7 years old hardware?

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    • #32
      Originally posted by bug77 View Post
      I'm glad you're getting 200fps in Q3, but how much does an open source score in Unigine's Heaven?
      I play games, not benchmarks.

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      • #33
        I don't understand you, bug77. If you insist on highest video performance, nobody is stopping you from using blobs.
        A year ago, we were happy running gears on r600c, and today you want now heaven.
        Things do not work that. At lest programming.
        I am proud user of r600c@work, and nouveau@home(waiting for Llano with r600g), and nobody gonna turn me back to blobs.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by bug77 View Post
          I'm glad you're getting 200fps in Q3, but how much does an open source score in Unigine's Heaven?
          If running a demo is really that important to you, then indeed the binary blobs are where it's at. Personally, I don't really care whether or not my computer can run a demo. That hardly makes it only suitable for a server.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by bug77 View Post
            I'm glad you're getting 200fps in Q3, but how much does an open source score in Unigine's Heaven?
            It doesn't run Heaven, but since Heaven is just a demo, it's not a big deal.

            Here, I run the following using a low-end HD4550 and r600g:

            SweetHome3d
            OpenArena
            Nexuiz
            Compiz
            KWin
            Doom3 + RoE
            Quake4
            Warsow
            Penumbra games
            World of Goo
            Gish
            Aquaria
            LugaruHD
            Quake Live


            and they are fine. But I'm not much of a gamer, other people run more stuff. Pretty much everything I've tried, works.

            Also power saving is OK, Xvideo and xrandr are excellent (nvidia blob still doesn't support this), and the thing is stable.

            I'm very glad that you refuse to look at open drivers because of your serious need for "Heaven" but please do not intentionally spread lies to confuse users, OK?

            "VESA", what an idiot

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            • #36
              Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
              Here, I run the following using a low-end HD4550 and r600g:

              Penumbra games
              They work now? Last time I tried they wouldn't start because of not supported OpenGL extensions.

              Have to try when I get home... Can't wait.

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              • #37
                Penumbra?

                I've finished Overture and Black Plague, and got bored with Requiem about 2/3 through.

                I think I was using r600c back then, but it should work with r600g too.

                Or are you thinking about Amnesia: Dark Descent? That used to be broken, but is working now, according to the RadeonProgram wiki.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by dredhammer View Post
                  i had planned on moving to ATI for the new version of ubuntu but seeing as how the 68xx/69xx series will require the closed binaries i'll wait until they get support in the opensource version.
                  The open source driver fully supports (2D, 3D, Xv) radeon 68xx asics as of 2.6.38 and initial support for 69xx just went into 2.6.39 (accel support for 69xx is still incomplete).

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by bug77 View Post
                    Indeed I haven't tried radeon drivers. I need proper Linux support, so I buy nvidia.
                    Oh, so you really are trolling, never mind.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Oh wow, I played it first with fglrx and the old config always produced
                      Init low level graphics
                      Setting video mode: 800 x 600 - 32 bpp
                      ERROR: Could not set display mode setting a lower one!
                      FATAL ERROR: Unable to initialize display!
                      on starting. With a new config it works. So forget what I said, it was not a missing OpenGL extension.

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                      • #41
                        Cannot edit... Why?

                        Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
                        Or are you thinking about Amnesia: Dark Descent? That used to be broken, but is working now, according to the RadeonProgram wiki.
                        Kind of works.
                        Light effects are a bit broken, flickering from nothing to full brightness but sometimes rendering correctly for a longer time...
                        http://ompldr.org/vN3dzcg/amnesia.png

                        And you should have a second PC with a ssh client because you never know when your graphics card goes http://pastebin.com/iQGkRkJk (happened not in the game but after going back to the menu) and you need to kill penumbra because your graphics card only provides the screen with 1 frame every 5 seconds.

                        But then I'm not using the "stable" driver anyway but git versions from xf86-video-ati, mesa and kernel26-drm-radeon-testing.

                        But performance is pretty good. So as good as nouveau probably.

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                        • #42
                          I haven't tried Amnesia yet (planning to buy it when I finally have the time to play a game again), but Penumbra worked perfectly, except for motion blur -- which was completely broken.

                          FWIW, I played Penumbra stuff at 1080p on an HD4550

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Drago View Post
                            I don't understand you, bug77.
                            My point is pretty clear: with all the advancements, open source drivers are still years behind binary blobs. Worse, there is no timeline indicating they will ever catch up.

                            Meanwhile, the blind push for the open drivers already hurts linux. AMD dumps (scarce?) documentation on developers and does little to improve their own driver which is behind nvidia anyway. I don't know how much good that did, but I believe nouveau is still the better open source driver.
                            The outcome? Firefox can only enable acceleration when it detects nvidia's blob, Unigine Heaven is delayed for months waiting for a proper Catalyst release. And the examples probably don't stop there.

                            I would love to see open source drivers being 5 years behind this year, 4 years behind the next and so on. But it just doesn't happen. I'm convinced the developers behind those drivers are very, very talented. But if you look at the results, it is pretty clear )to me at least) that a change in direction is in order. Otherwise in 2016 we'll read Michael's article about nouveau finally achieving passable support for the GTX460.

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                            • #44
                              3dfx Voodoo3 Amigamerlin Drivers for Windows XP.

                              Sorry for hijacking this thread with those incoherent blasts from the past, but let's remember a little.

                              There was a little company called 3dfx, who went belly-up after Windows 2000 was launched, but before Windows XP was even announced. So, no Windows XP drivers for me. There were Microsoft drivers, but they didn't do 3D. What were my options, as a proud 3dfx user?

                              1. Try to hijack an .INF file to install the 2K driver in XP. Fail.
                              2. Try to install the MS W2K driver. Milkdrop worked, but 3D games failed. Fail.

                              So, what did you think I do? Change a perfectly working Voodoo3 for a then crappy souped-up GeForce 2? I installed the Windows XP "Amigamerlin" driver, it worked like a charm, and kept me up until I did an upgrade, several years later.

                              What's the catch, and why am I talking about a Windows XP driver for an outdated video card in Phoronix? The Amigamerlin driver was a backport of the MesaGL 3dfx Glide Linux driver to Windows XP. When 3dfx support ceased, and nothing was left, my Voodoo3 was spared, because the Linux support for 3dfx was top-notch. Sure, there's no KMS, but we're talking about a 11-year old card versus a 2-year old technology. At the time (XFree86 4.3, for you to remember), the Linux 3dfx support was simply the best. And that support paid off in the long run.

                              Lesson: always buy a card with good open source drivers. Always. You'll be able to switch it when you want. You'll keep it, and it will work for you.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by bug77 View Post
                                My point is pretty clear: with all the advancements, open source drivers are still years behind binary blobs. Worse, there is no timeline indicating they will ever catch up.
                                They will probably never reach full parity, but will be close. The gap is closing very rapidly.

                                Meanwhile, the blind push for the open drivers already hurts linux.
                                Bullshit.

                                The people developing the blobs and people developing the open drivers are different people.

                                AMD dumps (scarce?) documentation on developers and does little to improve their own driver which is behind nvidia anyway.
                                COMPLETE documentation.

                                And they are funding 2 full-time open source driver developers, and about 100 closed-source driver developers.

                                I don't know how much good that did, but I believe nouveau is still the better open source driver.
                                You believe this although you haven't tried either. Awesome.

                                The outcome? Firefox can only enable acceleration when it detects nvidia's blob, Unigine Heaven is delayed for months waiting for a proper Catalyst release. And the examples probably don't stop there.
                                Wow, Unigine Heaven was delayed. Let's give up on Free Software forever.

                                The point of Free software is not to develop stuff sooner. That's not the point of Linux, of GCC, of the GNU project, of KDE, of GNOME, or LibreOffice, or any other project. And it is not the point of free drivers.

                                The Free drivers are awesome, that's all there is to it. I can't imagine going back to the nvidia blob again. I got better FPS, and that's it. Plus the occasional lockup and a big FU when my chip was no longer supported. No decent xrandr, laggy 2d (using Xvideo bogged down the CPU on my laptop). No thanks.

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