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Benchmarks Of The Latest Nouveau Gallium3D Driver

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  • #46
    Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
    The context of this entire nVidia blob thing is that nVidia is God
    No. It's absolutely not. Some who need blobs may also be nVidia fanbois but the fanbio part isn't a prerequisite for requiring a blob.

    For instance I've recently switched over to an ATI 5870 but I still require a closed driver at the moment. While I was using an nVidia card I was also arguing that closed drivers are sometimes required but I was simply branded an nVidia fanboi by some. Now that I run an ATI card I guess those same people will brand me an ATI fanboi. The simple truth is I need the most 3D performance out of my hardware I can get and some other do as well.


    Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
    and that Linux can't possibly function without it.
    Not really, what's being said is that while you get a frame store with the open drivers, and possibly some of the 2D and 3D functionality is accelerated, none of it is accelerated to the extent that the closed drivers do. Sometimes the open drivers aren't enough and when this is the case it's time to use the closed drivers.

    Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
    Sorry... I realy had to counter the ever growing BS as a whole, not just as a reaction to PingyFunkyBeat
    No matter what card a person has, you can almost always get it to display an image with an open driver. Some of the time that combination can be completely adequate. Sometimes though it may not be.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
      Realy... is the desktop experience without compositing and HD gaming unusable?
      For some, yes.

      Especially when their reason for buying the card is to game.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
        All I am saying is that it is bad for an operating system if one company has the sole know-how to provide such a driver and all of Linux desktop depends on their benevolence.
        Of course. It would be much better if all the possible functionality was present. However, my point was that the absense of OpenGL isn't the end of the world and certainly doesn't make Linux unworthy as a desktop.

        Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
        VESA driver provides no such thing.
        Well maybe Vesa might be a bit underkill, but it doesn't mean that without wobbly windows a computer running Linux wouldn't be very much suited for daily use

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        • #49
          Look, I agree with you, I bought my HD4xxx at the time when it was just becoming usable for 2d with experimental drivers. Fancy schmancy wobbles and games are not all there is to a desktop experience. Hell, I don't even use compositing on my work computer, and most of my work is done from terminal tabs.

          But I think that it's fair to expect your expensive, complex, 40 nm high-tech hardware with millions of transistors to do something else than act as an unaccelerated framebuffer.

          And I insist that such a thing should be possible without downloading binary drivers. I don't care if the blobs continue to exist, or if people use them. Just like I don't care if people use Opera to surf the web, or Eudora to check their email. They are based on open standards, and I can communicate with these people by using Free alternatives, and the world is OK. I'm not forcing them to do it my way (I might give a friendly tip, but zealotry does not work) and they are not forcing me to do it their way.

          But if a company has the power to one day say "OK, we're leaving this market segment, no more drivers for you, use VESA from now on", then this is a very different situation.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
            Look, I agree with you[...]
            And I mostly agree with you. It is just that computers can be devided into two purposes:
            1. Tools to enable daily life.
            2. Recreation

            I considder point 1 very important.
            I considder point 2 a nice extra, but not important at al. Recreation in my book should be done outside of a n*n*n meter room. Only when I do not have the option to go outside or visit other people due to the wheather and I realy have nothing else to do it is nice. But then again a full blown console + PCI-E Tuner is cheaper than the latest graphics card and even games are cheaper (not to mention non-FPS games till you drop) if you go for a PSP with a Composit cable to hook up to your TV/tuner.


            But I think that it's fair to expect your expensive, complex, 40 nm high-tech hardware with millions of transistors to do something else than act as an unaccelerated framebuffer.
            Well I won't be saying that OpenGL should be scrapped and that high end cards shouldn't be fully functional and that effort to make these cards work is in vain.
            I don't upgrade my computer that much so I expect the system that I buy to be able to keep up for 6 years in a row (unless it breaks). Therefore I naturaly buy faster hardware then I need at the moment I decide to upgrade. I don't want to worry about performance. I want to be able to run e17 just as much as the latest KDE. Maybe that's why I don't care so much that my card is currently just an advanced framebuffer without the blob.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
              But I think that it's fair to expect your expensive, complex, 40 nm high-tech hardware with millions of transistors to do something else than act as an unaccelerated framebuffer.
              Wow, someone finally got this out of you.

              Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
              And I insist that such a thing should be possible without downloading binary drivers.
              Yes it should, but it just isn't right now. Open drivers do not provide all of the functionality that the blobs do. In some cases, they provide -most of what you would need-, but never 100% of the binary featureset. Until they have a similar level of maturity, the open drivers just.aren't.practical. -for some people-, ATI -or- (to a much lesser extent) NVIDIA, which you refuse to acknowledge.

              Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
              But if a company has the power to one day say "OK, we're leaving this market segment, no more drivers for you, use VESA from now on", then this is a very different situation.
              You seem to be implying that NVIDIA will do this. Sure, they have the power to "walk away", but for Linux, the momentum is only growing, and NVIDIA's blob has the best OpenGL implementation of those available -anywhere- on Linux. They're not going to walk away from that support and commitment when hundreds of thousands of people amongst several thousand businesses rely on them almost exclusively.

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              • #52
                I'm not implying anything, I'm just pointing out that they have the power to do this. And this alone is very unfortunate, as Nvidia is a corporation, and corporations do things for profit, and it's not like providing desktop Linux drivers is particularly profitable.

                It doesn't have to be malice, they might decide that Linux desktop business is not bringing them any profit, and concentrate on high-end professional workstation market where they deliver preinstalled drivers to the high-end consumers who actually bring them the money.

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                • #53
                  Yes it should, but it just isn't right now. Open drivers do not provide all of the functionality that the blobs do. In some cases, they provide -most of what you would need-, but never 100% of the binary featureset. Until they have a similar level of maturity, the open drivers just.aren't.practical. -for some people-, ATI
                  -or- (to a much lesser extent) NVIDIA, which you refuse to acknowledge.
                  Finally, it is said.

                  Nvidia is a corporation and ATI (AMD) is not?

                  ATI's attempt at offering both binary and open source drivers is good (compared to Nvidia) but the problem is both driver sets are NOT optimized (feature set wise) and have major issues in various areas. The improvement and progress can be considered slow, too, perhaps. You can argue what's ideal and that you only need FOSS driver functionality all you want. Not everyone wants to do only the things you do. *Also*, why can't someone say the card can DO A so I want these features supported? If the Nvidia binary blob allows that, then someone might pick a Nvidia card for that purpose even though they'd prefer a company who is more open source oriented. It's about priorities. There seems to be a lot of praise to both sides without really examining those two points. At least, that's my perception.

                  When I build my budget computer, I'll probably look at a 'cheap' ATI card to try. I don't want to invest in a mid-grade card until I see the experience for myself.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Well, so people, but duuuuhhhhhh!
                    Without companies nothing is produced. What it is about is what products and services do they make and what products an services are what we want.

                    Now a company can do good or bad things, but they need money to pay salaries and stay alive. Now one could choose multiple ways of doing so. If nVidia where to release specs or in some other way enlight us and help noveau then realy; fine!
                    Intel and AMD showed to be profitable with their FLOSS options open and nVidia shows that they are profitable going blob only. So it is about what path a company chooses.

                    In the end companies pay people and get paid by paid people in exchange for a product that improves some part of one persons daily life. Perfect balance, until people can't get what improves their lives.

                    This is where voting with your wallet comes from. This has nothing to do with fanboyism, but the world we live in. In the end money is just an ideology of what a person is allowed to take, based on the significanse of their contribution to the world.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by ChrisXY View Post
                      That's a strong statement that can be proven wrong by one example.
                      My example is Half Life 2 + Episode 1 + Episode 2 + Portal. I played all of them on highest settings with a HD 4650.
                      The Framerate was ok, game ran very fluent.
                      The only problem are some rendering glitches with the sky but when trying the open source driver I got exactly the same rendering glitches... Maybe it's wine?
                      Was it playable using Open Source drivers? Wine is optimized for nvidia cards (however, this is changing afaik), so it can be wine bug.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
                        If nVidia where to release specs or in some other way enlight us and help noveau then realy; fine!
                        I doubt this would change your opinion on NVIDIA given even your most recent post track record.

                        Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
                        This is where voting with your wallet comes from. This has nothing to do with fanboyism, but the world we live in.
                        Yeah, I wonder what company has the majority Linux GPU share... Intel. How about discrete graphics? *hint* You guessed it.

                        People already do vote with their wallets without you telling them about it.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Can I haz GTX 4xx benchmarks and a comparison in the 2D performance of Nouveau and NV?

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by kazetsukai View Post
                            I doubt this would change your opinion on NVIDIA given even your most recent post track record.1
                            I'd say "Try me", but then again nVidia proves my stance by not doing so. Oh and I like Intel, just not their Poulsbo crap. But then again nobody seems to like their Poulsbo crap.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by kazetsukai View Post
                              You seem to be implying that NVIDIA will do this. Sure, they have the power to "walk away", but for Linux, the momentum is only growing, and NVIDIA's blob has the best OpenGL implementation of those available -anywhere- on Linux. They're not going to walk away from that support and commitment when hundreds of thousands of people amongst several thousand businesses rely on them almost exclusively.
                              Oooops, they did it:

                              http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24368

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                The Poulsbo driver is certainly a mess. Not sure the hardware is all bad. Just the idiotic licensing crap that goes with it...

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