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Benchmarks Of The Latest Nouveau Gallium3D Driver

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  • #16
    Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
    The funny thing is that this is exactly what the Windows crowd was telling me 10 years ago.

    And exactly what the Internet Explorer crowd was telling me 5 years ago.

    And what MS Office crowd is still telling me today.

    I didn't care then, and I don't care now. If the games are a bit slower, I can live with it. I don't use Linux to play Windows games, I use it because it is a free platform developed cooperatively for the most part, and without shoving DRM and proprietary stuff in my face.
    I agree. The open source AMD drivers are great for everything but running games in Wine. They can run almost any native Linux game just fine like UT2k4 and Doom 3, but not Unigine.
    KMS and the other technologies that integrate easily into Xorg and the kernel are really nice. Not having to reinstall the nvidia driver after a kernel update is awesome. Back when I used an nvidia it always sucked to reboot into a new kernel and then remember that X won't work anymore. The nvidia driver also used to show an Nvidia splash scree when X started (probably still does), and that was pretty annoying even if it could be disabled.

    For the most part I don't even need 3d when I use Linux. I just browse the web, read email, and write code and tinker around with my Gentoo system.

    Whenever I feel like running a Windows game, I use Windows as much as I hate doing it. I used to be able to play games with wine when I had an Nvidia card, but it was a pain to do and wasn't really worth the effort anyway. I really hope wine gets better, but it's still pretty buggy.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by curaga View Post
      I suppose the oldest bits might also be from Utah-GLX code.
      None of it is from Utah. The oldest bits were written for the newer cards, code for older cards came later.

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      • #18
        @Michael,
        Was Compiz usable with Noveau? Or is that too early still?

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        • #19
          Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
          @Michael,
          Was Compiz usable with Noveau? Or is that too early still?
          compiz isn't that demanding unless you enabled loads of effects... it has been working on nouveau for quite some time I think on 7xxx+ ... I think the older cards used to work but the driver was rewritten for gallium3d and I'm not sure if the support for them has been added back in.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Prescience500 View Post
            Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Intel had good drivers and crappy graphics cards.
            Pretty much.

            The choice between Intel and Nvidia is really the choice between having a stable system vs having good opengl performance.

            With Nvidia proprietary drivers your shoveling Megabytes worth of Windows driver code into your kernel with a thin shim to make it compatible with Linux.

            With Open source drivers you have a relative small DRM portion in the kernel that creates a stable ABI/API for userspace drivers and libraries were the bulk of the driver action goes on.

            The biggest draw-back to OSS approach, currently, is that X windows still wants to control the hardware and you depend on X to provide 2D acceleration. Which is something that is slowing being fixed.

            With Nvidia you are replacing big hunks of Xorg with proprietary nvidia code. (they have their own 2D acceleration stuff, for example)

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Prescience500 View Post
              Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Intel had good drivers and crappy graphics cards.
              Since they switched to KMS you have both crappy drivers and crappy graphic cards.
              And I'm not talking about 3d performances (which are half than on windows).
              I'm simply too tired having tons of problems with a STABLE intel stack while I have NO problems at all with an UNSTABLE radeon stack.
              ## VGA ##
              AMD: X1950XTX, HD3870, HD5870
              Intel: GMA45, HD3000 (Core i5 2500K)

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              • #22
                Originally posted by pvtcupcakes View Post
                Not having to reinstall the nvidia driver after a kernel update is awesome. Back when I used an nvidia it always sucked to reboot into a new kernel and then remember that X won't work anymore.
                Thankfully most people running a sane distro that provides packaged binary drivers will automagically get the new kernel module with the new kernel.

                Then there's DKMS

                Those running a more bespoke "config stuff by hand" distro probably wont be too troubled by running a sudo ./NVIDIA-Linux-x86-195.36.24-pkg1.run -K after the system boots which quickly builds just the kernel module.

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                • #23
                  I think the problems with drivers will only get better when Linux has more market share.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by mugginz View Post
                    Thankfully most people running a sane distro that provides packaged binary drivers will automagically get the new kernel module with the new kernel.
                    How is it "sane" to provide 3rd party blobs that continually break things all over the map? And I mean to the point where they basically have to say "if you're running a blob driver, don't even bother reporting bugs -- we're not interested".

                    Then there's DKMS
                    Aside from the issue previously discussed, you also need to be LUCKY. Change of kernel tends to break the driver -- won't compile until the kmod source is fixed.

                    Those running a more bespoke "config stuff by hand" distro probably wont be too troubled by running a sudo ./NVIDIA-Linux-x86-195.36.24-pkg1.run -K after the system boots which quickly builds just the kernel module.
                    .... if they aren't too worried about the nvidia driver polluting their system with files that it will never properly uninstall...

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                    • #25
                      I wanna see a 2D benchmark since the other day the cairo benchmarks (which were mentioned/linked on Phoronix) said that Nouveau beats Nvidia.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by n0nsense View Post
                        LOL,
                        They will die as IGP on x86 platform ONLY.
                        Sure, we'll give it to you that they may still have half a "niche" with the add-on cards... which only appeal to a VERY small minority of users. The rest are happy with IGP level performance

                        AFAIK, NVIDIA is the only fully functional GPU for Linux with proprietary drivers.
                        You're forgetting about AMD. Last I checked, I actually quite preferred the AMD drivers over nvidia. nvidia drivers are just too broken for my taste.

                        I (and my guess many others) don't really care if it's open or proprietary. It does the job. Games, Video, other features.
                        Try to follow the logic:
                        If one doesn't care if it is open source or closed source, then the natural preference is for the one that "just works", right? And since the proprietary drivers won't be included in any SANE distros, the only one that CAN POSSIBLY "just work" will be the open source driver, right? What follows from that is that YOU and MANY OTHERS naturally must prefer an OPEN SOURCE driver, all else being equal. And so those who want it to "just work" prefer open source, and those who prefer open source as a PRINCIPLE will ALSO prefer open source, naturally EVERYONE prefers open source, all else being equal.

                        AMD is headed towards the state of "all else being equal". Nvidia is a LONG WAY off of that, and unless they change something drastically, will NEVER get there. And so they will NEVER "just work".

                        So you are left with PART of a niche market... the OTHER part will be fully owned by something that "just works" while your nvidia remains a struggle... hmm.. seems a no-brainer to me. Nvidia is going to fail, even when it comes to add-on cards.

                        What about mobile ?
                        What ABOUT mobile?
                        Qualcomm snapdragon chips contain a big chunk of AMD IP (the GPU and video decoder), and they're wiping the floor with nvidia in terms of market share.

                        Of course, if AMD knows what's best for them, they'll probably not want to completely drive nvidia into the ground.... a little bit of competitive innovation moves the world along, and there IS no competition for AMD besides Nvidia....

                        If i had to guess who gonna die first, it is probably AMD.
                        I doubt very much that you can substantiate that statement with anything that actually makes sense.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
                          How is it "sane" to provide 3rd party blobs that continually break things all over the map? And I mean to the point where they basically have to say "if you're running a blob driver, don't even bother reporting bugs -- we're not interested".
                          How is it sane for some of the posters that frequent these forums to continuously pre-judge people who need to use the blobs? Without even asking what uses people have for their own machines some insist that everyone should, regardless of actual requirements, remove the blasphemy that is the closed driver and be satisfied with and performance implications this has on their work flows.


                          Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
                          Aside from the issue previously discussed, you also need to be LUCKY. Change of kernel tends to break the driver -- won't compile until the kmod source is fixed.
                          Well it works for me but I do understand that not everyone can say that. But again, if you need the blob, you need the blob. You can say all you like about free vs closed, but sometimes the open drivers from any of the various vendors can't cut it for some use cases.


                          Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
                          .... if they aren't too worried about the nvidia driver polluting their system with files that it will never properly uninstall...
                          Remember, some people need the blobs. I understand that not everyone does, and for them the open drivers are options. Not everyone can get buy with the open drivers. Simple really.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
                            Try to follow the logic:
                            If one doesn't care if it is open source or closed source, then the natural preference is for the one that "just works", right? And since the proprietary drivers won't be included in any SANE distros, the only one that CAN POSSIBLY "just work" will be the open source driver, right? What follows from that is that YOU and MANY OTHERS naturally must prefer an OPEN SOURCE driver, all else being equal. And so those who want it to "just work" prefer open source, and those who prefer open source as a PRINCIPLE will ALSO prefer open source, naturally EVERYONE prefers open source, all else being equal.
                            If you believe any of that then I find that pretty funny.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by FunkyRider View Post
                              I pity YOU as the one not being able to render a damn game on Linux. Or maybe you are satisfied as the ~5FPS speed on a HD4870 running 10 year old game? That's even more pathetic
                              That's a strong statement that can be proven wrong by one example.
                              My example is Half Life 2 + Episode 1 + Episode 2 + Portal. I played all of them on highest settings with a HD 4650.
                              The Framerate was ok, game ran very fluent.
                              The only problem are some rendering glitches with the sky but when trying the open source driver I got exactly the same rendering glitches... Maybe it's wine?

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
                                How is it "sane" to provide 3rd party blobs that continually break things all over the map?
                                It isn't that the driver is breaking- it compiles the driver kernel interface for the -specific version- of kernel.

                                Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
                                And I mean to the point where they basically have to say "if you're running a blob driver, don't even bother reporting bugs -- we're not interested".
                                I've filed bugs with NVIDIA before, and they're very interested in hearing about them. There are NVIDIA support personnel on patrol in their forums for this purpose as well.


                                Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
                                Aside from the issue previously discussed, you also need to be LUCKY. Change of kernel tends to break the driver -- won't compile until the kmod source is fixed.
                                No, you need to be running something other than Noobuntu (which in its latest versions break alot of automagick functionality). Any modern RPM distro supports DKMS, as does Gentoo / Debian, Slackware, Arch....

                                Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
                                .... if they aren't too worried about the nvidia driver polluting their system with files that it will never properly uninstall...
                                What driver are you downloading? The Riva TNT2 driver? Are you stuck in the early 90's McFly? The (un)installer does a good job cleaning up after itself nowadays, and it certainly does a better job than the proprietary ATI one.

                                I'm tempted to believe this article was written in /response/ to the flaming going on in the forums now. If you want bleeding edge GPU features go with the NVIDIA blob, if you want openness stick with your radeonhd driver. The trolling is getting old.

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