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  • Radeon 740G?

    Hey guys I was looking into getting a new motherboard that could support the new Phenom CPU's But I'm on a pretty tight budget, and the only board I could find in my price range that is capable of running the new 125w CPU's has a graphics chip called the 740G....Heres a link to the board.....

    http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16813135076

    So what is it? And what generation is this chip? Is it R400, R500, or R600?

    Also this is kinda the wrong section, but how well does the Linux kernel support the SB700 south bridge?

  • #2
    The 740G is an enhanced 690G. It doesn't map exactly onto 4xx/5xx/6xx but the best approximation is probably still R6xx display controller, R5xx 2D engine, R4xx 3D engine.

    The main differences between 740 and 780 are :

    - 740 is DX9, 780 is DX10
    - 780 has UVD, although none of the Linux drivers support UVD today
    - 740 has no vertex shaders, 780 has unified shaders, but with a fast CPU the vertex shaders don't make that much difference
    - 740 has the "classic" 2d engine, 780 does all the 2d work on the 3d engine
    Last edited by bridgman; 04-26-2008, 04:57 PM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by bridgman View Post
      The 740G is an enhanced 690G. It doesn't map exactly onto 4xx/5xx/6xx but the best approximation is probably still R6xx display controller, R5xx 2D engine, R4xx 3D engine.

      The main differences between 740 and 780 are :

      - 740 is DX9, 780 is DX10
      - 780 has UVD, although none of the Linux drivers support UVD today
      - 740 has no vertex shaders, 780 has unified shaders, but with a fast CPU the vertex shaders don't make that much difference
      - 740 has the "classic" 2d engine, 780 does all the 2d work on the 3d engine
      This might seem like an odd question, but right now I'm using a nvidia 6100 graphics to drive my primary monitor, and an nvidia 7600gt to drive the TV. It works great. the 6100 is fast enough for any desktop need, and the 7600 is fast enough to play most games and videos at either 1680x1050 or 1280x800... So my question is....

      Will this card play nicely with nvidias blob driving the 7600gt? If so, how does the 740g compare to the 6100 on desktop performance?

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      • #4
        Using X with multiple GPUs is still in the "yeah, well, it should work but..." category. The RandR protocol doesn't seem to properly support multiple GPUs (although RandR 1.3 should) so quick answer is "I don't know".

        re: performance against 6100, the 61xx parts seem to have 1/2 the pixel shader throughput but they do have HW vertax shaders. Seems like it's going to depend on your CPU -- if you have a decently fast CPU then the 690/740 might be up to 2x as fast, but if you have a sufficiently slow CPU then the NV part could match or maybe even beat the 690/740.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by bridgman View Post
          Using X with multiple GPUs is still in the "yeah, well, it should work but..." category. The RandR protocol doesn't seem to properly support multiple GPUs (although RandR 1.3 should) so quick answer is "I don't know".

          re: performance against 6100, the 61xx parts seem to have 1/2 the pixel shader throughput but they do have HW vertax shaders. Seems like it's going to depend on your CPU -- if you have a decently fast CPU then the 690/740 might be up to 2x as fast, but if you have a sufficiently slow CPU then the NV part could match or maybe even beat the 690/740.
          Excellent. So at this point it is a "try and see" kinda thing. And if all else fails then I just have to wait for RandR 1.3. OK makes sense.

          I'll be getting a new Phenom and this board when I get the Federal Stimulus check in the mail. That should take care of vertex shaders.

          What is the benefit of doing vertex shaders in software? Clearly less hardware, but is that all? Are modern CPU's fast enough that vertex shaders arent important anymore?

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          • #6
            Before we all moved to unified shaders, removing vertex shaders saved die size and cost, and since most IGP sales were with new CPUs there wasn't much performance loss. It was just a major pain for driver developers.

            CPUs do vertex shading better than pixel shading, so as long as you're not looking at a high end part you can do vertex shading in SW without much of a performance hit.

            The big problem is that badk in the dark ages integrated graphics used to be "free" since the northbridge parts were pin-bound, ie the die size was determined by the number of pins not the amount of logic on the chip. Adding a simple GPU did not raise the die size so it could be considered "free".

            These days GPUs on a Northbridge are no longer free due to advances is fab process technology but they are still incredibly cost sensitive.

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            • #7
              You can not mix fglrx with nvidia, thats impossible as nvidia replaces the libs.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Kano View Post
                You can not mix fglrx with nvidia, thats impossible as nvidia replaces the libs.
                What about the nvidia blob and open source radeon? No prolly not due to nvidia overwriting the opengl libraries?

                How about nouveau and radeon? Does nouveau support 3d acceleration on the 7600gt? Also does the radon support 3d acceleration on the 740g?

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                • #9
                  Radeon supports 3D on 690, so if it doesn't work with 740 then it's probably just a few IDs away from working. The work to add radeonhd plumbing to use the same 3D code (mesa and drm) is almost finished, so radeonhd should be fine for 740 as well.

                  I don't think we have a 740 in the pool of HW we use for open source dev and test but will try to add one.

                  IIRC there are some IGP-specific 3D issues which would also affect 740, related to SW emulation of vertex shaders, but as more devs come up to speed on the ati mesa drivers we should be able to pick those issues off fairly quickly.

                  EDIT -- just to be clear, I'm talking about supporting 740 as the only running graphics device, not running at the same time as a proprietary driver from any vendor.
                  Last edited by bridgman; 04-27-2008, 08:57 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Anyone got some information about how 740G works in Linux today?

                    Thinking about getting one and I heard 690G works very good now and since the graphics card is almost the same this should work just as good I assume.

                    I just want descent 2D performance and be able to play videos ok, not interested 3D stuff...

                    I assume the SB700 southbridge is a little better than SB600 for harddrive performance too?
                    The 740G chipset seams perfect for me that just want a low power computer with fast harddrive and network performace (getting a intel pci-express NIC).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I can comment on my experiences with the 740G chipset, Fedora 9, AMD 5000+ and a Gigabyte GA-MA74GM-S2 motherboard.

                      Install was a little rough, as whatever driver was being auto selected would give a black screen and lock me out of the system. I tried text install and that worked, but playing with radeonhd (xorg-x11-drv-radeonhd-1.2.1-3.7.20080724git.fc9.x86_64.rpm) would allow me to login once. If I would exit the session, I would get a solid black screen that no amount of switching screens would bypass. Even during the active session I was logged into, lockups were fairly common with multimedia (xv and x11 under mplayer).

                      I went to the 'ole stable vesa driver for a while, and that worked OK. My prior setup was a 9250 with the radeon driver, and a P4 1.6Ghz. Vesa might be slow, but with the 5000+ and 2 gigs of ram, I was able to play video using the x11 driver with mplayer. The only issue that I was having was that vesa doesn't like widescreen monitors (video bios presets or something). My 1440x900 display was showing a squashed 1440x1050 screen. While functional, it was difficult to look at.

                      I crossed my fingers and changed over to the radeon driver, and it seems to work right now. I'm still using x11 and mplayer (Haven't had the courage to try xv yet). I have not had a lockup to date and I am able to exit the session and return to gdm with no issues.

                      I don't like to text mode install under Fedora 9. My recommendation to anyone installing on a 740G mb is to disable the onboard video in the bios set the mb to boot from PCI, power down the machine, and add an old PCI video card for install. Once all is set, you can switch to the vesa (or radeon) driver, set the bios back to the 740G, remove the card, and restart the machine. I tried this on a re-install and it seemed to work much better.

                      Overall, I'm quite happy with the 740G; I might not be so happy with a slower processor, but it suits my 2D desktop work fine. I'm hoping the radeonhd driver will update soon to include better support for the 740G.

                      I'd be interested in feeback from other 740G operators. I'm always looking to improve my setup.

                      For those interested, pulseaudio didn't seem to like the hda-intel Realtek ALC888. Alsa worked fine by adding the lines to /etc/modprobe.conf:

                      alias snd-card-0 snd-hda-intel
                      options snd-card-0 index=0
                      options snd-hda-intel model=auto

                      Some things in my xorg.conf file were from trying to get vesa to display 1440x900 instead of 1440x1050. The xorg site explained that my efforts were futile, of course. My xorg.conf is:

                      Section "ServerLayout"
                      Identifier "single head configuration"
                      Screen 0 "Screen0" 0 0
                      InputDevice "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard"
                      EndSection

                      Section "ServerFlags"
                      Option "AllowMouseOpenFail" "yes"
                      EndSection

                      Section "InputDevice"
                      Identifier "Keyboard0"
                      Driver "kbd"
                      Option "XkbModel" "pc105"
                      Option "XkbLayout" "us"
                      EndSection

                      Section "Monitor"
                      Identifier "Monitor0"
                      ModelName "LCD Panel 1440x900"
                      DisplaySize 381 238
                      HorizSync 31.5 - 100.0
                      VertRefresh 59.0 - 75.0
                      Option "dpms"
                      EndSection

                      Section "Device"
                      Identifier "ATI Card"
                      VendorName "ATI Technologies Inc"
                      Driver "radeon"
                      Option "BusType" "PCI"
                      Option "Panelsize" "1400x900"
                      Option "IgnoreEDID" "1"
                      Option "UseFBDev" "1"

                      EndSection

                      Section "Screen"
                      Identifier "Screen0"
                      Device "ATI Card"
                      Monitor "Monitor0"
                      DefaultDepth 24
                      SubSection "Display"
                      Viewport 0 0
                      Depth 24
                      Modes "1440x900" "1440x900"
                      EndSubSection
                      EndSection

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                      • #12
                        Thanx for the info jeffk!
                        Have you checked running hdparm too?
                        Will probably get a 740G soon so I can reply how it went for my install, I will be installing Ubuntu intrepid ibex. If the gfx card dont work well I can always use my old nvidia card in the mean time til the radeon HD drivers get better.

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                        • #13
                          How does the 780v compare to the 740g?

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                          • #14
                            I think its pretty much only the gfx card that differs. The 740G gfx card is based on the older 690G and the 780V is based on newer 780G.

                            I think that the 780V and 780G might be better supported than the 690G and 740G in the future by the radeon HD driver.

                            So maybe I should get a 780V MB instead ...

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                            • #15
                              I was looking around at Toms Hardware and their graphic card charts. 780V, 780G, 690G, 740G are not shown. The 780G is supposed to be about the same as a HD2400 even though it shows up as a HD3200.

                              A lot of people don't seem very happy with the 8600GT passive (non-fan) cards. Based on review, the 8600GT with fan is probably the best buy. The 7600GT is probably almost as fast. The 7600GS is probably the best fanless option (for a separate card). These cards blow away all integrated graphics. The 7300GS while probably better than integrated is not that cheap compared to others.

                              Review of 740G shows cheapest is around $50. The cheapest 780V is around $55. The cheapest 780G is around $65 (not believing too much in rebates), and the ASUS and Gigabyte boards start around $85.

                              The cheapest mboards with or without integrated graphics is around $40 (and does have the 6100 IGP). But, the 6100 and 6150 had tight memory (DRAM) requirements as they had to operate at 1.8V.

                              I've never tried a foxconn or biostar so I suggest you try one or both of these and give us some feedback.

                              Edit: looks like moments after linking the link for the 780V, it went out of stock. The 740G link is still good but I notice it only has 100MB integrated lan but not GB lan. Darn! But, still a little better than my previous dialup or even more recent 1MB/s home lan hookup. Sacrifices...Sacrifices.
                              Last edited by forum1793; 08-23-2008, 09:43 PM.

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