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AMD's Radeon Gallium3D Starts Posing A Threat To Catalyst

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Kemosabe View Post
    I get max 30% of the performance with radeon drivers and A10-5800k. Tried it several times - it's just unusable. I have no clue what i am doing wrong!
    You need a 3.11 or WIP 3.12 kernel and a boot option (radeon.dpm=1 IIRC) to enable DPM. If you have both of those and still not seeing decent performance then please post back.

    Originally posted by kmare View Post
    I agree. I have a RS880 based laptop and still no UVD unfortunately, it really kills the whole experience.
    How exactly do you have UVD on those chips using the open source r600g drivers? As far as I know the support is not yet included or even implemented.
    UVD is supported in the open drivers for more recent chips -- IIRC everything after rv10/730 is supported but rv770 and earlier (including all the IGPs) are not. The older UVD internals were sufficiently different in the areas which affect our ability to release open source support that we pretty much have to go through the whole review exercise a second time.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by BO$$
      Probably the final 5% will take 10 years since they will have to re-architecture everything. No way the amateur beginner programmers will be a match to the big corporation pros, unless of course the pros from the said corporations start helping them, like is the case for AMD. By themselves the FOSS community would have never gotten here.
      You must be really stupid. FLOSS driver has much less development power and was started much later compared to Catalyst, but it's nearly as fast as blob in those benchmarks. Furthermore, Big Corporations (tm) are part of FLOSS idiot.

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      • #18
        I have the 6870. Using the 3.12 rc kernel. I would also like to add something that benchmarks don't show you, is how the catalyst driver also makes it much better to alt/tab and switch virtual desktop while playing games. Wine games now don't crash when I switch desktop. Dota2/l4d2/tf2 don't freeze while switching virtual desktop.
        Tf2 doesn't have map rendering corruption on the open source drivers.
        I'm getting constant 60fps on the valve games.

        The open source drivers just give a much better experience.
        The is no way in hell I'm going back to the closed source ones.

        Good job AMD and the guys coding the open source driver.

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        • #19
          good job

          good job, finally some good drivers to amd/ati users, fglrx sucks.

          they need improve radeonsi like this one, in my opinion is a lot more importante improve radeonsi than r600g, new apu will use radeonsi. maybe in summer we have radeon si with opengl 3.3 and good perfomance

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Kemosabe View Post
            I get max 30% of the performance with radeon drivers and A10-5800k. Tried it several times - it's just unusable. I have no clue what i am doing wrong!
            You have APU.
            We already had this case here.
            I recommend you to read all the thread, even if its old.

            So, DPM got enabled in 3.11 and should work good in 3.12-next. This means, 3.12 solve your APU thermal room problem NOW.
            The rest - shader optimisations got enabled in MESA 9.13 by default. Current stable MESA is already 10.0.
            And finally, you need to get 3.12-next to get the cpufreq ondemand governor fixed, or you need to manually find out and set its values.
            Just read through this subforum and learn about it. As for me, I have AII630 on one of the machines - its here. My optimal values are 35% with 6 delay. Or just upgrade to 3.12.

            Anyway, the best upgrading guides are: radeonhowto; and archlinux and gentoo linux corresponding radeon pages.
            May the google be with you.
            Last edited by brosis; 10-30-2013, 06:17 PM.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by bridgman View Post
              IIRC everything after rv710/730 is supported but rv770 and earlier (including all the IGPs) are not.
              Fixed typo -- missing a "7"...

              Originally posted by brosis View Post
              And finally, you need to get 3.12-next to get the cpufreq ondemand governor fixed, or you need to manually find out and set its values.
              Good point -- I forgot about the CPU governor.
              Last edited by bridgman; 10-30-2013, 06:15 PM.

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              • #22
                Just noticed 6950 gets major slowdown everywhere. Can anyone explain this? Is it still because Michael uses Ubuntu (that has Intel pstate=off) with ondemand??? Even if 3.12 is patched, this can be the corner case - if such a high-end gpu is not feed with data adequately, it will definitely IOWait.

                Michael, as nobody has a possibility to retest under exactly same condition, could you please rerun 6950 test, but with governor set to performance to clear things off?
                Because, according to my tests, with manually tuned ondemand from 3.10 one reaches ~93% of glxgears fps compared to performance. (with stock ondemand -> 25%)

                If you do this test, and it confirms, this would also mean that with cpu governor set to performance (or pstate for intel), there (might) would be about 7% performance boost, which should reach or even surpass catalyst..!

                This is because opensource radeon driver is known to impact very light CPU overhead (compared to others), thus not triggering CPU out of sleep state.
                Last edited by brosis; 10-30-2013, 06:16 PM.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                  but rv770 and earlier (including all the IGPs) are not. The older UVD internals were sufficiently different in the areas which affect our ability to release open source support that we pretty much have to go through the whole review exercise a second time.
                  Bridgman,

                  Do you know if AMD is committed to doing that review exercise a second time for the earlier UVDs?

                  Thanks.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                    UVD is supported in the open drivers for more recent chips -- IIRC everything after rv710/730 is supported but rv770 and earlier (including all the IGPs) are not. The older UVD internals were sufficiently different in the areas which affect our ability to release open source support that we pretty much have to go through the whole review exercise a second time.
                    The ATI naming scheme sure is wacky. How come rv710 and rv730 come after rv770 and rv790...

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by brosis View Post
                      Just noticed 6950 gets major slowdown everywhere. Can anyone explain this?
                      According to Wikipedia, the 69xx are the first to use the VLIW4 ISA instead of the older VLIW5, so they'd use a different shader compiler. Is the 6950 still driven by r600g?

                      But then again, isn't Xonotic way more shader intensive than OpenArena? If it was an issue with the shader compiler, you'd see the difference with Xonotic, too.

                      So no, I can't explain it.

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                      • #26
                        I think the last test (GpuTest v0.5.0) is the most interesting one from a technological point of view. It shows that the OSS driver still has WAYS to go to be on par with the catalyst driver on windows. And that is very promising because most game benchmarks are close to catalyst! In other terms, if the improvements keep flowing in i can see the OSS driver be quite a bit faster then the catalyst driver on windows or linux.

                        Interesting times ahead, that's for sure!

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Weegee View Post
                          And now do the same with a HD7970 or a R9 290X using games like Serious Sam 3, DOTA 2 or Left 4 Dead 2.

                          I think everyone knows that the driver for the 4000 to 6000 series cards is wonderful and that there's no real reason to not use it over Catalyst. The situation for newer cards (and thus for gamers who bought their AMD card after 2011 and want to switch to Linux) is still dire if you don't use Catalyst (and Catalyst is dire itself).

                          I'm so happy that I was able to replace Catalyst with the open source driver on my laptop which runs the latest Mesa git snapshots and 3.12-rc7 right now, but it also has a Mobility Radeon HD5650 - I don't think I would've done that if I had an actual up-to-date GPU.

                          So yeah ... keep up the good work AMD, but please, start focusing on newer GPUs as well. I don't think recommending a 6870 for playing games on Linux sounds that nice, especially if everyone else already shouts "use NVIDIA on Linux only".
                          I definitely would like to see those games in the benchmarks.

                          Serious sam 3 on catalyst and opensource on Linux compared to catalyst on windows and openGl vs Direct X on windows.

                          The developers of Croteam stated that there is no reason in the game engine, why it should not run a tiny bit faster on linux, compared to direct X on windows.
                          So it might be a good game to see, how good the drivers are at the moment.
                          With this game, I experienced a big performance improvement, about half a year ago, with the catalsyt driver on Linux.


                          Left for dead 2 on Linux still isn't very smooth. (opnSUSE 12.3 HD5750 )
                          And I still remember the faster zombies ( with nvidia though)
                          http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/faster-zombies/
                          Last edited by Gps4l; 10-30-2013, 07:38 PM.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by halfmanhalfamazing View Post
                            Bridgman,

                            Do you know if AMD is committed to doing that review exercise a second time for the earlier UVDs?

                            Thanks.
                            Yes, discussions have been underway for a while now.

                            Just like last time though -- no guarantees that we'll actually be able to release it no matter how much time we spend on it -- and the older UVDs have even more IP-related challenges than the more recent designs.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post
                              The ATI naming scheme sure is wacky. How come rv710 and rv730 come after rv770 and rv790...
                              We used to develop the "big chip" first (big chips have a higher number in the second digit) then create smaller "derivative" chips once the big chip had finished most of the design verification. Sometimes the smaller chips would be able to pick up new versions of certain IP blocks.

                              Eventually the big chips got too big to fit on the megabuck HW emulators and so a "smaller chip first" model started to look more attractive

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                              • #30
                                Is there any webpage tracking Radeon's progress on the post-HD6000 GPUs?
                                Last edited by Kostas; 10-30-2013, 08:49 PM.

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