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AMD Has Open-Source Driver For HD 8000 Series

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Hamish Wilson View Post
    I must be dreaming then - I game on R600g all the time.
    Yeah, I finished Doom3 and Prey on r600g years ago, but this is astroturf FUD marketing. He doesn't care, he just posts what he's paid to post.

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    • #32
      Since nobody explicitly meantioned it already:

      AMD team is on good track. They publish their drivers for new hardware, earlier and earlier with each generation. (7xxx was victim of new architecture and 8xxx which could be served in time!)

      So for 9xxx there will be good support BEFORE release. That mean many thing:
      1) AMD folks will have more time, since they will not have to start work on next gen hw, right away.
      2) AMD folks will have more time, since they will not have to deal with hw bugs on their own, since Catalyst team will be also interested in resolving them.
      3) AMD folks will be "more productive", since they will release code in smaller packages, but for longer time spans. (Now its big pushes for each hw)
      4) AMD folks will be "more productive", since they priority number one "get pre-release support done!" will take less time, leaving them more time on pushing new OpenGL stuff.
      5) AMD folks will be "more productive", since they will be able to molest their legal department more often for permission to release various bits and pieces.

      Hmm. Its time to see how my 5720M is doing with r600g

      PS Do not school Michael for his messy understanding of the state of radeonSI. Grab PTS and upload some test results to OpenBenchmarking.org. And send him links :P (Or share on MESA mailing list, since he have some automated spiders tracking such stuff )

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      • #33
        Originally posted by przemoli View Post
        So for 9xxx there will be good support BEFORE release.
        I wouldn't be so sure about that. Seems that the 8xxx cards are just rebrands of the 7xxx ones for the oem market. Can bridgman comment on driver status regarding actual next gen hardware?

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        • #34
          I do not question AMD mesa/gallium developer abilities, I don't think anybody here can say they do not do stelar work. R600g is already a very good driver, probably as good as or even better than intel's, IP issues aside.

          The problem lies exactly in the IP issues. I question AMD management's commitment to the open drivers and linux support in general (specially in the consumer space), and how far are they prepared to go to provide proper consumer ready, feature complete bug free linux support of their products. Currently, my understanding is that it is pretty much up to the mesa/gallium devs to write some magical code that is able to perform as desired without revealing any compromising IP. Maybe they will be able to do that, maybe not. Maybe this can only be properly resolved by some other route, such renegociating the license contract with whatever third party IP provider they have, buying said IP, buying the IP holder or release it and risk going to court. But that is outside of the scope of the devs.

          Some of these options are probably completely absurd. But the worse possible alternative is that all of them are, and that only leaves avoid using such IP in future generations, but that will not help current cards. The most we can expect is fomr them is to honestly confirm that features X, Y and Z canot be supported for generations xxx-xxx due to such IP licensing issues. That has been pretty much done for UVD for example.

          What astonishes me is that according to brigdman AMD sees mesa/gallium as the way to go to support consumer GPUs, so fglrx is only a temporary solution, but at the same time, they cannot honestly say that we will be able to see a mesa/gallium feature complete driver in the next 5 yearss. fglrx shouldn't be expected to properly work also (also not feature complete). So what we conclude from that is that for AMD's management, consumer GPU linux support is not even an afterthought. They are pretty much betting all their coins on windows (in the consumer space). That has been a safe bet for the last 25 years, but I personaly do not see a future where windows continues to be only consumer operating system with a decent marketshare. To me, the mobile revolution is much more than simply smartphones and tablets, it is about these quirky, goodlooking and userfriendly OSes that are light, portable and flexible enough to be in every device, providing you with as much information and as much configurability as possible to extract the most from our devices. This resembles a lot AMD's vision of "surround computing", but it is hardly compatible with MS business. Android is what it is today because people are releasing consoles, watches, robots, toaters, fridges, god knows what running the OS, MS cannot compete with that. Will they have some space in next 5-10 years? Sure! Will windows still be the dominant OS? well, hard to say...

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          • #35
            @Bridgman

            Does 2d on glamor still tear?

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by fa5hion View Post
              I wouldn't be so sure about that. Seems that the 8xxx cards are just rebrands of the 7xxx ones for the oem market. Can bridgman comment on driver status regarding actual next gen hardware?
              Nope

              Originally posted by Figueiredo View Post
              The problem lies exactly in the IP issues. I question AMD management's commitment to the open drivers and linux support in general (specially in the consumer space), and how far are they prepared to go to provide proper consumer ready, feature complete bug free linux support of their products. Currently, my understanding is that it is pretty much up to the mesa/gallium devs to write some magical code that is able to perform as desired without revealing any compromising IP. Maybe they will be able to do that, maybe not. Maybe this can only be properly resolved by some other route, such renegociating the license contract with whatever third party IP provider they have, buying said IP, buying the IP holder or release it and risk going to court. But that is outside of the scope of the devs.
              One more time -- our commitment is to support community development of open source drivers, and we are going further than that by hiring some really good developers to work on the drivers full time. We are not committing to do all of the open source driver development ourselves and never have.

              Originally posted by Figueiredo View Post
              Some of these options are probably completely absurd. But the worse possible alternative is that all of them are, and that only leaves avoid using such IP in future generations, but that will not help current cards. The most we can expect is fomr them is to honestly confirm that features X, Y and Z canot be supported for generations xxx-xxx due to such IP licensing issues. That has been pretty much done for UVD for example.
              That is not what we said at all. What we said was (a) we were not including a commitment for *any* UVD support in the initial announcement, (b) that we would work internally to see what could be done, and (c) that where we did find obstacles with releasing programming info for current hardware we would raise the issues internally and see if we could find ways to lift those restrictions in future designs.

              Originally posted by Figueiredo View Post
              What astonishes me is that according to brigdman AMD sees mesa/gallium as the way to go to support consumer GPUs, so fglrx is only a temporary solution,
              ???

              Um... no. What I said was that I saw fglrx as the way to go for 3D workstation, and that I expected a mix of driver usage for consumer.

              Originally posted by Figueiredo View Post
              but at the same time, they cannot honestly say that we will be able to see a mesa/gallium feature complete driver in the next 5 yearss.
              It depends on the community resources available to work on it. We will definitely help.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Figueiredo View Post
                The problem lies exactly in the IP issues. I question AMD management's commitment to the open drivers and linux support in general (specially in the consumer space), and how far are they prepared to go to provide proper consumer ready, feature complete bug free linux support of their products.
                That is a super nice dream for any software. And one which will never come true.


                Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                One more time -- our commitment is to support community development of open source drivers, and we are going further than that by hiring some really good developers to work on the drivers full time.
                Just curious: Are you looking to increase the number of driver developers?

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Asariati View Post
                  Just curious: Are you looking to increase the number of driver developers?
                  Well, not to dampen anyone's spirits, but considering the recent financial problems at AMD we should count ourselves lucky that none of the ones that they do have already ever seemed to have been considered to be shaved, if you know what I mean.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                    Um... no. What I said was that I saw fglrx as the way to go for 3D workstation, and that I expected a mix of driver usage for consumer.
                    Is "3D workstation" only the firegl "professional" graphics cards? Can a notebook with enduro be a workstation too?

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by curaga View Post
                      @Bridgman Does 2d on glamor still tear?
                      Dunno. I have to find time to fit a bigger power supply in my work system before I can plug in the Tahiti board. On a positive note I have system, power supply, screwdriver, bandages and Tahiti board all ready to go.

                      Originally posted by ChrisXY View Post
                      Is "3D workstation" only the firegl "professional" graphics cards? Can a notebook with enduro be a workstation too?
                      I believe we are selling high-end APUs and high-end laptop chips into the 3D workstation market as well. One of the interesting things that came out of the move to unified shaders is that midrange GPUs can crunch typical workstation loads very quickly with the right driver optimizations.
                      Last edited by bridgman; 02-06-2013, 07:09 PM.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Hamish Wilson View Post
                        I must be dreaming then - I game on R600g all the time. And run composted desktops on it. Have you ever actually used it for these purposes or are you just going on accusations or here-say? It may not have the most performant 3D, but it works and it is stable, even on RadeonSI it now appears.
                        Then use RadeonSI to game before shooting your mouth off. That driver is complete crap for everything except drawing the desktop.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                          Dunno. I have to find time to fit a bigger power supply in my work system before I can plug in the Tahiti board. On a positive note I have system, power supply, screwdriver, bandages and Tahiti board all ready to go.



                          I believe we are selling high-end APUs and high-end laptop chips into the 3D workstation market as well. One of the interesting things that came out of the move to unified shaders is that midrange GPUs can crunch typical workstation loads very quickly with the right driver optimizations.
                          By the way Bridgman, there something I need to ask you. Surely you must have heard by now about the unconfirmed news that Ubuntu might just decide to roll their own special display server instead of sticking with X or hopping on to Wayland (which is nuts considering how THEY were the ones who started everybody on the slow migration to Wayland to begin with, but that is a rant for another time...)

                          The point is, if Ubuntu really does go ahead with their own in-house display server, what will this mean for the AMD drivers? Obviously AMD is not going to produce fglrx for Wayland and Ubuntu's display server as of now when X is still the only DP suitable for use at this point of time, but what will happen to the open source drivers? Will it have to be adapted (along with Mesa and Gallium3D) to fit both Wayand and Ubuntu's DP or will they run as-is on both display servers without any need for repurposing?

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Sonadow View Post
                            but what will happen to the open source drivers? Will it have to be adapted (along with Mesa and Gallium3D) to fit both Wayand and Ubuntu's DP or will they run as-is on both display servers without any need for repurposing?
                            Typically new display servers would be designed to work with the open source drivers as they are today. The developers may or may not try to support the binary drivers at the same time.
                            Last edited by bridgman; 02-06-2013, 11:57 PM.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Sonadow View Post
                              Then use RadeonSI to game before shooting your mouth off. That driver is complete crap for everything except drawing the desktop.
                              I would hardly state that I was shooting my mouth off - especially since anything that was not based on first hand experience I qualified as such, but based on the comments made by agd5f what I said does seem to hold true in general. Maybe you should try and see why he is having such a different experience than you rather than complaining about my post, which barely touched on the subject anyway.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Sonadow View Post
                                Then use RadeonSI to game before shooting your mouth off. That driver is complete crap for everything except drawing the desktop.
                                Which specific games did you find it to be 'complete crap' for? Did you file bugs?

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