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  • #16
    Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
    irrelevent blather about what OS our admin systems use and the fact that I have a BluRay player in my home system
    Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
    the only true "shooting the messenger" i dit to you was the : Linux is counted as a Warez edition of windows tropic because this nearly cause a Hearth attack to me....
    Welcome to the real world. I'm telling you what decision makers are being told (at all HW vendors, not just AMD), and I'm telling you how that can be changed (get the message back through system and board vendors, make a credible case to *them* that improving Linux support will let them be more successful).

    Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
    and you still believe in the opensource drivers need to fit into the market-share footprint even if linux is counted as a warez version of "Windows" in other words your company protect the monopole from microsoft up to 100% only because : "opensource drivers need to fit into the market-share footprint"

    and your company do not understand the word: "Investment" (yes yes i know they believe they already invest money but there believes are just based on faked market share numbers)
    Wrong on all counts, but I think you know that (or you're not as smart as I think you are).

    I have said multiple times that our spending on Linux is proportionally quite a bit larger than the apparent market share (2x a couple of years ago, probably higher now). It's great for you to say "well those market share numbers are faked", but if major system and board builders are saying one thing and some guy named Qaridarium on Phoronix is saying something else then at best you're going to get a decision that "splits the difference". I know you hold me personally responsible for everything we are told by our major customers, but I can't help you with that.

    The other point you are missing over and over again is that our proportional spend on Linux is probably higher than that of our major competitors already, and is comparable at the very least. We do spend significant $$ in areas that our major customers don't care about because we know that end users *do* care, and that amount is increasing every year.

    I know it's attractive to pick on me because I try to actually discuss the underlying issues with you, and it's nice to imagine that disagreeing with the information I pass on will somehow magically change it back at the source, but I do think that falls into the category of "shooting the messenger" and does no good for anyone other than maybe giving you a big grin as you hit "Submit Reply".
    Last edited by bridgman; 06-08-2012, 09:57 AM.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by bridgman View Post
      Welcome to the real world. I'm telling you what decision makers are being told (at all HW vendors, not just AMD), and I'm telling you how that can be changed (get the message back through system and board vendors, make a credible case to *them* that improving Linux support will let them be more successful).

      Wrong on all counts, but I think you know that (or you're not as smart as I think you are).

      I have said multiple times that our spending on Linux is proportionally quite a bit larger than the apparent market share (2x a couple of years ago, probably higher now). It's great for you to say "well those market share numbers are faked", but if major system and board builders are saying one thing and some guy named Qaridarium on Phoronix is saying something else then at best you're going to get a decision that "splits the difference". I know you hold me personally responsible for everything we are told by our major customers, but I can't help you with that.

      The other point you are missing over and over again is that our proportional spend on Linux is probably higher than that of our major competitors already, and is comparable at the very least. We do spend significant $$ in areas that our major customers don't care about because we know that end users *do* care, and that amount is increasing every year.

      I know it's attractive to pick on me because I try to actually discuss the underlying issues with you, and it's nice to imagine that disagreeing with the information I pass on will somehow magically change it back at the source, but I do think that falls into the category of "shooting the messenger" and does no good for anyone other than maybe giving you a big grin as you hit "Submit Reply".
      first of all this means you admit that I'm right on all points where you have no replies ? (Windows vista usage and Blue-ray)

      and you stil claim that AMD is not directly responsible for the Selling of APU-GPUs like the hd6550D? (this is a rhetorical question because i know you know it)
      And YOU and AMD still dit not noticed that the opensource performance in APU-GPUs like the hd6550D do have the worst opensource driver performance and this is directly responsible for the driver investment policy in your company?
      you stil claim that the OEM is responsible but there is no OEM for products like : "AMD A-Series A8-3870K Black Edition, 4x 3.00GHz, boxed (AD3870WNGXBOX)"
      in my point of view the "system and board vendors/OEM" arguments are just apologies and excuses because even if amd is directly responsible (AD3870WNGXBOX) for example it changes nothing there is no different end-user support compared to the "OEM" products
      and this prove there is no meaning in your "system and board vendors/OEM" talk and because of this its pointless to talk to ""system and board vendors/OEM"" because they do not write the drivers at all and its not there job at all!

      "It's great for you to say "well those market share numbers are faked", but if major system and board builders are saying one thing and some guy named Qaridarium on Phoronix is saying something else then at best you're going to get a decision that "splits the difference"."

      you use The Art of Being Right 38. Ad personam because my personality "Qaridarium" is not a part of the Tropic and attacking my authority in this question is not a argument it is just the use of The Art of Being Right 38. Ad personam.

      and you really think you can win an argument on me by attacking my authority ?

      if the market-share numbers are faked then your hole argumentation are meaning less and this is not a question about my authority this is a question about "Truth"

      "The other point you are missing over and over again is that our proportional spend on Linux is probably higher than that of our major competitors already, and is comparable at the very least."

      is is also only "Art of Being Right " because you create a wrong image of myself and then you do arguments against the wrong image and not my real personality. and i can prove this easy because i already buyed a hd3870,hd4650,hd4670,hd4770 to admit the work of AMD and honor that they are spending more money on opensource than "Nvidia" i dit not buy nvidia products for over 7years or something like this

      but the real question is what is your secret objective in using "Art of Being Right " against me ?

      maybe you really think that the people here do not realize this ?

      "We do spend significant $$ in areas that our major customers don't care about because we know that end users *do* care, and that amount is increasing every year. "

      this just Prove me RIGHT! AMD also think that arguing on "system and board vendors/OEM" are just apologies and excuses and its meaningless because only the end-users matters because THEY buy the hardware and not the "system and board vendors/OEM" companys.

      if i'm wrong at this point amd would never do this: "spend significant $$ in areas that our major customers don't care about because we know that end users *do* care, and that amount is increasing every year"

      " I know you hold me personally responsible for everything we are told by our major customers, but I can't help you with that."

      no you are not personally responsible for the "linux=unlawful windows copy" tropic.
      but its still not nice telling linux users this.

      "I know it's attractive to pick on me because I try to actually discuss the underlying issues with you, and it's nice to imagine that disagreeing with the information I pass on will somehow magically change it back at the source, but I do think that falls into the category of "shooting the messenger" and does no good for anyone other than maybe giving you a big grin as you hit "Submit Reply"."

      what's your point when you point the market share is questionable? read your message again with that fixed: "I have said multiple times that our spending on Linux is proportionally quite a bit larger than the apparent (questionable?)market share(questionable?) (2x a couple of years ago, probably higher now)."

      how do you know what you don't know because its questionable? and its also questionable what is counted as a "Linux" because you prefer to not count "Andorid" as a linux and there are many more examples for that last month i helped a anti-linux-customer from me with a TV-receiver and the handbook of the tv-receiver proved that its a Linux on the box because of this THIS MAN IS USING LINUX in his living room/lounge but his PC do have XP because of his this man is counted as a WINDOWS customer and not a linux customer? this is more than stupid to count like this!

      because of this if you calculate for REAL and not in scheming/hanky-panky style your Linux market share is much higher than YOUR numbers!

      the linux market share is in fact questionable and this makes your words questionable because you claim that your company spend 2x more money on a questionable market share number and so one and so one.

      "Wrong on all counts, but I think you know that (or you're not as smart as I think you are). "

      maybe i think to complex to describe it with words like "right" and "wrong"

      Comment


      • #18
        bridgeman is my hero

        I stillcan't belive people bashing AMD for the huge amounts of effort they put in. Sure, more is always better and I'm sure peopl ealways argue there's more needed. All that said and done, it's remarkable how much AMD _does_ do. Remember, AMD is also the saller 'underdog'. It doesn't have the intel budgets for things. It is still for lack of better word, struggling to keepalive.

        So Bridgeman, the messenger, is my hero.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by oliver View Post
          bridgeman is my hero

          I stillcan't belive people bashing AMD for the huge amounts of effort they put in. Sure, more is always better and I'm sure peopl ealways argue there's more needed. All that said and done, it's remarkable how much AMD _does_ do. Remember, AMD is also the saller 'underdog'. It doesn't have the intel budgets for things. It is still for lack of better word, struggling to keepalive.

          So Bridgeman, the messenger, is my hero.
          maybe right but in bridgmans words they spend 10,92% of the windows money into the linux driver and i know this is wrong because AMD calculate with 2%(bridgman words) !

          i personaly think the Wikipdia numbers are the best numbers you can get for "Free" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_s...rating_systems

          and wikipedia count 5,46% Linux market share.

          and 5,46 multiply with 2 is 10,92% but amd do not spend 10,92% money they spend 2% money (bridgmans words).

          and they think this is 200% because they think linux is only 1% market share. 1% multiplay with 2 =2 ........

          because of this discrepancy between 2% and 10,92% i think bridgman just lie!

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          • #20
            other source tell 6,2% linux market share in 2011: http://insights.chitika.com/2011/ope...r-2011-update/

            this means in bridgman words they spend 12.4% of the windows money into the linux driver. (not really they spend 2-4%)
            Last edited by Qaridarium; 06-08-2012, 11:30 AM.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
              i personaly think the Wikipdia numbers are the best numbers you can get for "Free" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_s...rating_systems
              I see "1.66%" for Linux. We have separate funding for Android.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                I see "1.66%" for Linux. We have separate funding for Android.
                last time i checked wikipedia : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android...ting_system%29

                wikipedia count andorid as a linux : wikipedia : "Andorid OS family: Linux"

                "we have separate funding for Android."

                i'm sure you don't spend 12.x% of the windows money on all Linux familyOSes.

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                • #23
                  OK, so you're really talking about us "not spending enough on Android" ?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                    OK, so you're really talking about us "not spending enough on Android" ?
                    i talking about you are not spending 12.x% of the windows money to "Linux familyOS"
                    last time a friend checked andorid-Linux on AMD hardware it sucks balls!
                    i really don't care to use ubuntu or android on my PC if i get good opensource drivers!
                    but in fact the andorid-linux-os only get shit crap catalyst bullshit driver because the power-manegment of the radeon driver suck!
                    and the ironic part is they get the same crap catalyst like the ubuntu users. no fucking difference!


                    i ask again where are the 10-12% of the " windows" money for the linux family Operating Systems ?

                    do we get power-management with opensource drivers on amd hardware if we use andorid instead of ubuntu ?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                      i talking about you are not spending 12.x% of the windows money to "Linux familyOS"
                      I never claimed we were. Feel free to redefine "Linux" (I was talking about typical PC distros) but don't expect the numbers I gave you before to make sense with your new definitions.

                      Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                      i ask again where are the 10-12% of the " windows" money for the linux family Operating Systems ?
                      See above.

                      Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                      last time a friend checked andorid-Linux on AMD hardware it sucks balls! i really don't care to use ubuntu or android on my PC if i get good opensource drivers! but in fact the andorid-linux-os only get shit crap catalyst bullshit driver because the power-manegment of the radeon driver suck! and the ironic part is they get the same crap catalyst like the ubuntu users. no fucking difference!
                      Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                      do we get power-management with opensource drivers on amd hardware if we use andorid instead of ubuntu ?
                      We haven't released Android driver packages so assume you're talking about Android-x86 using the upstream open drivers ? My experience was that the open drivers running with Android-x86 behaved like the open drivers on typical PC distros. Why would you expect anything different ?
                      Last edited by bridgman; 06-08-2012, 12:18 PM.

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                      • #26
                        I realy wish bridgman would stop feeding the trolls

                        One of the reason's all these threads get pulled off topic is because bridgman keeps responding to Q.

                        Making logical reasonable arguments against a troll does not help anyone - it just feeds them and helps to derail the thread.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I tried "ignore" for a while but the threads still filled up with Q's posts and the ignore function doesn't really hide them. This doesn't seem much worse, really...

                          But yeah, maybe this is a good place to stop. I don't feel like this is heading towards a conclusion although sometimes it does.
                          Last edited by bridgman; 06-08-2012, 12:26 PM.

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                          • #28
                            That card is nothing but a joke. fps between 5 and 15? Who wants to play with that?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                              I never claimed we were. Feel free to redefine "Linux"
                              it was not my definition of linux it was the wikipedia definition of linux.

                              wikipedia : "Andorid OS family: Linux" source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android...ting_system%29

                              Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                              I was talking about typical PC distros)
                              so its only a typical linux dristo if the market share is low?

                              i can install andorid on my PC were is the problem?

                              Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                              but don't expect the numbers I gave you before to make sense with your new definitions.
                              i just found your scheming/hanky-panky style because andorid is per definition a "Linux" you can read this fact on WIKIPEDIA!

                              but you can recheck your numbers without scheming/hanky-panky style

                              what is the amd investment in "Linux-Family-OS" compared to "Windows-Family-OS"


                              Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                              "do we get power-management with opensource drivers on amd hardware if we use andorid instead of ubuntu ?"

                              We haven't released Android driver packages so assume you're talking about Android-x86 using the existing open drivers ? My experience was that the existing open drivers running with Android-x86 behaved like the existing open drivers on typical PC distros. Why would you expect anything different ?
                              i expect the different in the market share money you claimed ? now the market share of "Linux-Family-OS" is much higher but we only get the result of a typical PC distro like ubuntu ?

                              my feeling tells me that amd is cheating on "Linux-Family-OS" users . in numbers amd cheat 2% to 6% real market share
                              Last edited by Qaridarium; 06-08-2012, 12:30 PM.

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                              • #30
                                Instead of fighting with Q you could share some info, like, future plans for r500, power managment, 2d acceleration, video decoding etc etc.

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