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AMD Is Still Struggling With HD 7000 On Catalyst

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  • #31
    Originally posted by johnc View Post
    So when nvidia releases kepler later this year, what are the chances that linux support is available from the get-go?
    I am sure they'll release a working Linux binary driver (albeit without Optimus support) for it at launch time just to one-up AMD

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    • #32
      Originally posted by bridgman View Post
      EDIT -- Michael mentioned the HD 7770 launch driver in the article, never mind.

      FYI, we have never posted launch drivers as part of the Catalyst series - instead we provide them to board vendors for inclusion in the box.

      Since we still aren't seeing many (any ?) vendors shipping the Linux drivers in-box, the Catalyst folks have started posting out-of-cycle driver builds (as KB articles) to get them into users's hands without having to wait for the new GPU support to show up in the regular Catalyst releases.
      AMD is so stupid when it comes to Linux Catalyst. They do not understand Linux world completely.
      Nobody uses driver from box CD. Neither Linux nor Windows users. It is old and buggy. Usually contain unwanted oem bloatware. This box driver CD ends up in trash immediately after buy. Everyone downloads current driver from the Internet. Linux users get it by distro update channel/configurator. Windows users from gpu maker site. To have new driver in distros update channel it first must be published on amd site so distro's driver packager can download it, test it and repackage it for distro update channel.

      Nvidia Linux driver team starts working on compatibility with recent kernel/xorg releases when those are close to first Release Candidate state. During RC releases Nvidia beta driver is downloadable with support for RC releases which also works when final xorg/kernel appears.
      AMD linux Catalyst sucks because it does not support official releases of recent xorg/kernel several months after release. We do not even dream for RC support by Linux catalyst. Many distros says that AMD Linux Catalyst is the only blocker who stops updating kernel/xorg to new versions. Intel ready, Nvidia ready and AMD as always lags behind several months. What is wrong with these Linux Catalyst developers? Do they need project manager with whip to be on time? Hopefully in our distro all users repalced Radeons with Intel and Nvidia so we could drop Linux Catalyst entirely and follow new Xorg/kernels as soon as their final version appear. XvBA was again stupid thing. Together with XvBA release should be programming docs - there was none. Learn from Nvidia - they released VDPAU with programming docs, patches for for ffmpeg and mplayer. That is why they won the Linux market: always up to date (release early release often strategy), cooperate with community, professional quality drivers, more features than competition.

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      • #33
        They can't even keep up with the drivers on WINDOWS. Do you think they have time for Linux?

        Seriously, there are very major bugs in the initial release of 7900 support on Windows, and NO OPENCL AT ALL (the OpenCL binaries aren't available, and older ones don't work / won't install).

        A company that can't properly support their flagship product on their flagship operating system is not going to give a care about the little guy

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        • #34
          Originally posted by allquixotic View Post
          and NO OPENCL AT ALL (the OpenCL binaries aren't available, and older ones don't work / won't install).
          That doesn't sound right. We've been including the OpenCL runtime in the standard Catalyst package for months (a year or so IIRC) on Windows, and recently started doing the same on Linux. There are no separate OpenCL binaries other than development tools.

          Most of the HD 7xxx reviews included OpenCL benchmarks, eg :

          http://www.anandtech.com/show/5261/a...7970-review/25

          ... or are you just saying that the OpenCL runtimes aren't included in the off-cycle Linux launch drivers ? Your post sounded like it was "windows and linux"...
          Last edited by bridgman; 03-04-2012, 01:22 PM.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by allquixotic View Post
            They can't even keep up with the drivers on WINDOWS. Do you think they have time for Linux?

            Seriously, there are very major bugs in the initial release of 7900 support on Windows, and NO OPENCL AT ALL (the OpenCL binaries aren't available, and older ones don't work / won't install).

            A company that can't properly support their flagship product on their flagship operating system is not going to give a care about the little guy
            I got a 7970 on January 20 and I have OpenCL working without any problems using the special driver for the 79xx. The normal fglrx series does not support 79xx yet.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by bridgman View Post
              That doesn't sound right. We've been including the OpenCL runtime in the standard Catalyst package for months (a year or so IIRC) on Windows, and recently started doing the same on Linux. There are no separate OpenCL binaries other than development tools.

              Most of the HD 7xxx reviews included OpenCL benchmarks, eg :

              http://www.anandtech.com/show/5261/a...7970-review/25

              ... or are you just saying that the OpenCL runtimes aren't included in the off-cycle Linux launch drivers ? Your post sounded like it was "windows and linux"...
              No; I'm saying that when I downloaded and installed the Catalyst "12.2 Pre-Certified Driver" (the driver that comes up when you select the HD7900 Series in the drop-down list for download drivers on ati.amd.com) the package does not ship anything related to OpenCL. There is no file in C:\AMD\12-2_pre-certified_vista_win7_64_dd_ccc that contains "cl" (case-insensitive) in the file name, and I used UniExtract to unpack all archive files of any type (CAB, MSI, etc) that exist in the driver install.

              I've tried the following OpenCL programs and all of them basically say the app-specific version of "uh, we can't find OpenCL on your system at all, dude".
              • Sony Vegas 11 Pro
              • smallptGPU
              • mandelGPU
              • Geeks3D GPU Caps Viewer

              I do not have an "OpenCL.dll" on my path, so the programs that linked to it at build-time refuse to start at all, saying that OpenCL.dll was not found (this is the case for smallptGPU and mandelGPU). The programs that dynamically load it at runtime just completely disable their OpenCL support. Neither OpenCL CPU nor OpenCL GPU demos work within Geeks3D GPU Caps Viewer.

              The installer did not throw any errors, and I did the "completely remove" all AMD software (including CCC and CIM) and rebooted prior to installing the 12.2 Pre-Certified Driver.

              I've also downloaded and installed the separate AMD APP SDK hoping it might have it, but nope. Not even a CPU implementation.

              This little oversight means that I can't use my $550 graphics card with my $600 Sony Vegas 11 Pro to do video compositing / encoding. With the resources available to the Catalyst team, this is not OK.

              I had OpenCL before on my 5970, but uninstalling the old Catalyst seems to have deleted the OpenCL binaries, and installing the new one didn't put them back.

              I know you're not Windows support, but this is just one issue I'm having (and there are several more) on Windows, which is supposed to be the platform that AMD invests real money/resources in. If it's this bad on Windows, I don't even want to try fglrx or the open drivers until 2013 - 2014, by which time I will be starting to think about a GPU upgrade. Sigh.....
              Last edited by allquixotic; 03-04-2012, 02:31 PM.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by elmo23x View Post
                I got a 7970 on January 20 and I have OpenCL working without any problems using the special driver for the 79xx. The normal fglrx series does not support 79xx yet.
                Pretty sure you're talking about Linux, which is fine. The Linux blob may very well support OpenCL, but I haven't tested it. Right now I'm trying to get it to work on Windows. I always have such an unbearably bad experience on Linux with new GPUs that I'm basically going to be stuck running Linux in VMware for 6 to 12 months from now.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by allquixotic View Post
                  Pretty sure you're talking about Linux, which is fine. The Linux blob may very well support OpenCL, but I haven't tested it. Right now I'm trying to get it to work on Windows. I always have such an unbearably bad experience on Linux with new GPUs that I'm basically going to be stuck running Linux in VMware for 6 to 12 months from now.
                  Yes, I was talking about GNU/Linux.
                  If I select windows I still get the 8.921.2 RC11 version (I just checked), which I am using for gaming (I do not use OpenCL on windows). And if you check the Catalyst 12.2 pre, it says "Please note that AMD Radeon HD™ 7900 users should keep using the 8.921.2 RC11 driver found here (the 12.2 preview does not support the AMD Radeon HD 7900 Series)".

                  Check yourself:
                  http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles...iewdriver.aspx

                  So, go back to the 8.921.2 RC11:
                  http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles...C11Driver.aspx

                  I hope this helps you solving your issues!

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by elmo23x View Post
                    Yes, I was talking about GNU/Linux.
                    If I select windows I still get the 8.921.2 RC11 version (I just checked), which I am using for gaming (I do not use OpenCL on windows). And if you check the Catalyst 12.2 pre, it says "Please note that AMD Radeon HD™ 7900 users should keep using the 8.921.2 RC11 driver found here (the 12.2 preview does not support the AMD Radeon HD 7900 Series)".

                    Check yourself:
                    http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles...iewdriver.aspx

                    So, go back to the 8.921.2 RC11:
                    http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles...C11Driver.aspx

                    I hope this helps you solving your issues!
                    Uh...................... what?

                    Are we looking at the same website?

                    Here's exactly what I'm doing:

                    1. Go to http://ati.amd.com

                    2. Click on "Support & Drivers" in the top-right hand corner, which points you to http://support.amd.com/us/Pages/AMDSupportHub.aspx

                    3. Click on "Download Catalyst Drivers" in the middle of the page, which points you to http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/Pages/index.aspx

                    4. Select the following fields: which points you to http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles...ieddriver.aspx

                    5. Download http://www2.ati.com/drivers/hotfix/c..._64_dd_ccc.exe

                    Note that the date published on that article (Article #GPU-151) is February 16, whereas the date published on the article for the "Preview" driver you mentioned is February 3. I'm not sure how you got a link to that page, unless you're saving that link from before they updated the driver.

                    The "RC11" driver is from January 25, so it's even older. It doesn't make any sense, what you're saying. Especially when the GPU-151 article says this:

                    Originally posted by AMD
                    Feature highlights of the AMD Catalyst 12.2 pre-certified driver:

                    Windows 7 and Windows® Vista® support for the AMD Radeon™ HD 7900 Series and AMD Radeon HD 7700 Series

                    Enables support for Windows 7 64-bit/32-bit and Windows Vista 64-bit/32-bit
                    Windows XP support will be made available in AMD Catalyst 12.4


                    Also, I'm able to use Stereoscopic 3D with AMD HD3D (games that use the Quad Buffer SDK); play very high-end DX11 / OpenGL 4.1 games; and watch Blu-Ray 3D movies. I have no idea how I could be doing any of these things if my driver doesn't "support" my graphics card. Catalyst Control Center lets me completely customize my settings with no indication of a problem, and I can enable all three of my displays.

                    Basically, "lolwut?"

                    My conclusion remains: AMD does not ship OpenCL in any way, shape or form with the Catalyst 12.2 Pre-Certified Driver. (do NOT confuse Pre-Certified with Preview; they are two completely separate releases!!!)

                    For once, I completely agree with Michael: AMD is still struggling very, very badly with HD 7000 on Catalyst.
                    Last edited by allquixotic; 03-04-2012, 03:17 PM.

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                    • #40
                      (following was a response to elmo23x's post, not allquixotics)

                      That was my first impression as well, but it appears there are a couple of 12.2 driver :

                      - a 12.2 *preview* driver (the one you linked) which does not support HD 79xx
                      - a "before-certification" driver (12.2 final) which adds HD 79xx support

                      http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles...ieddriver.aspx

                      Anyways, I don't know enough about the Windows installer to comment intelligently on what the issue might be on allquixotic's system, but I do know that the earlier drivers for HD 79xx did include OpenGL support and did seem to run OpenCL apps pretty well (at least to the extent I didn't see comments in the reviews). Probably wouldn't hurt to try the earlier driver.
                      Last edited by bridgman; 03-04-2012, 03:21 PM.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                        That was my first impression as well, but it appears there are a couple of 12.2 driver :

                        - a 12.2 *preview* driver (the one you linked) which does not support HD 79xx
                        - a "before-certification" driver (12.2 final) which adds HD 79xx support

                        http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles...ieddriver.aspx

                        Anyways, I don't know enough about the Windows installer to comment intelligently on what the issue might be, but I do know that the earlier drivers for HD 79xx did include OpenGL support and did seem to run OpenCL apps pretty well (at least to the extent I didn't see comments in the reviews).
                        You are correct; however, there is also a third driver out there, the "RC11" HD7900 preview driver, which iirc was the very first Catalyst for Windows release that supported the HD7xxx series at all. I am kind of wary about using this older driver (it's from January) because I am sure there are plenty of fixed issues between the 12.2 Pre-Certified Driver and the "RC11" driver which is basically a beta. The pre-certified driver, as I understand it, is currently undergoing validation and certification at WHQL, which is taking longer than expected because there are so many changes compared to the usual builds. I wonder if the Microsofties will notice the minor oversight that OpenCL is missing?

                        Nah, they probably don't test OpenCL.

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