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  • Open-Source AMD Fusion Graphics Still Mixed

    Phoronix: Open-Source AMD Fusion Graphics Still Mixed

    While AMD was very fast to provide open-source Fusion graphics driver support under Linux (along with official support in their proprietary Catalyst driver), the support has not ended up working out too well for us. It has regressed since the November push. As mentioned in March, the E-350 Fusion Linux support took a dive in terms of its graphics support with some outstanding bugs. Since then, the support has improved and is now largely usable, but there are still some big issues.

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=15959

  • #2
    Reliability + Performance are the reasons I always prefer the Nvidia binary drivers. I can rely on them working great because they are being made from the hardware manufacturer. With open source, being made by random coders responsible only to themselves, what works today could break tomorrow. That excludes AMD however.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by zoomblab View Post
      Reliability + Performance are the reasons I always prefer the Nvidia binary drivers. I can rely on them working great because they are being made from the hardware manufacturer. With open source, being made by random coders responsible only to themselves, what works today could break tomorrow. That excludes AMD however.
      lol

      Nvidia drivers are great because the hardware manufacturer makes them. OSS drivers suck because they're done by random people. Oh, AMD drivers suck too, and Intel, even though they're made by the hardware manufacturers. So i guess I just refuted my own argument.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by zoomblab View Post
        Reliability + Performance are the reasons I always prefer the Nvidia binary drivers. I can rely on them working great because they are being made from the hardware manufacturer. With open source, being made by random coders responsible only to themselves, what works today could break tomorrow. That excludes AMD however.
        Yes, and the open source is made by communists, and who wants his computer to turn into Chernobyl

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        • #5
          Zacate is supposed to be an Intel Atom killer. Low price point, better than Atom performance, power consumption comparable to Atom and hardware accelerated video decoding. So very suitable for netbook like computers; that is if you're running Microsoft Windows.

          But what if you want to run GNU/Linux on one of these? What sort of battery life would you get using catalyst or open source drivers? How well does it handle 720p and 1080p video content with XvBA, Xv and what about Adobe flash? And how much impact does video playback have on battery life using fglrx and open source drivers compared to Microsoft Windows?

          I think these questions are much more relevant for potential buyers of a netbook with a low performance APU than what frame rate you get in game X. These things are not really meant for gaming.

          Also I strongly disagree with your statement that: "The Catalyst driver though was -- and continues -- to work great for this interesting AMD APU". It's known that catalyst does not play well with gnome-shell. I don't care how much fps catalyst gives you get with game x, if the driver cannot even be used for normal desktop usage then the driver is not great. Games are not essential a desktop is.

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          • #6
            I find it so funny (and hypocritical).
            When KWin didn't work on Nvidia cards, everybody shouts "Buggy KDE!", but when gnome shell doesn't work on Catalyst, everybody shouts "Stupid ATI, can't write drivers that work!".

            (shakes head)

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            • #7
              I have a Thinkpad Edge 13 AMD based, 1.5 athlon neo x2 and integrated ati hd mobililty 3200.
              I bought this big pile of crap because of missleading articles about how everything runs great on AMD couse they are so into linux now and so open.

              For my card no hardware acceleration even with official ati drivers. They tear free crap eats 70% of my Cpu when watching a simple xvid,dvdrip .avi file. Now with latest catalyst if i select opelgl for rendering my video still have tearing. Before that was the resolve to tearing. For me AMD sucked and will always suck no matter how many fanboys they win.

              Intel drivers are open and if u say they are crappy than it means community doesnt do anything to impruve them. Give us the full specs and we take care of the rest is a big pile of crap too. If intel wasnt developing the VA-APi and their drivers u can be sure that community would take to doest tasks like 10 light years.

              Nvidia on the other hand does or tryied to do a decent job with their drivers on linux.
              What i want from my crappy AMD based laptop?. Regular normal user stuff :
              1 . Watch 720p HD videos
              2. No video tearing by default like nvidia has where i doest eat 70% of ur cpu to ensure tear free experience with terible lagging video and washed out colours.
              3. And last not the least until they do get good support i recomend anyone going mobile to use intel chips. As i see it sandy bridge has accelerated hardware support for video , feature parity with their windows driver, and leave amd to enjoy their windows ppl not that give a crap about linux people or the linux community.

              As last thing OSS drivers save the day or else my desktop would be rendered useless. I get like 8% cpu usage playing Xvid videos or bluray rips dvdrips, and like close 50% cpu usage on a 720p HD video. All those things are not posible with ati binary blob + i get the most wasted and ugly colors ever when playing a video.

              Honestly i think that i have a better chance of fully featured OSS driver in 1-2 years from now than i`ll ever have to see an ATI/AMD official blob that will do the most basic stuff the a computer user needs.
              I cant buy AMD crap ever again from a company than constantly fails in doing the most basic thing in computing RIVERS. My next laptop will surely be all Intel!

              Hope i didnt offend anyone and i dont want to start a brand war but since now i only had AMD machines but i`m sick and tired of always lagging behind other users that use intel/nvidia combo.

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              • #8
                I also have a ThinkPad Edge with AMD CPU. It works fine using the open source drivers, I have summarized my experience in this wiki page. Of course there is no video decode acceleration yet, but it can play H.264 1080p videos fine and tear-free using multithreaded ffmpeg/mplayer2. I have never even felt the need to install fglrx.

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                • #9
                  I have an AMD Fusion E-350 based Ideapad laptop for university, and it's working great and also does 1080p video through VA-API/XvBA if I need it.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by adriankx View Post
                    I have a Thinkpad Edge 13 AMD based, 1.5 athlon neo x2 and integrated ati hd mobililty 3200.
                    I bought this big pile of crap because of missleading articles about how everything runs great on AMD couse they are so into linux now and so open.

                    For my card no hardware acceleration even with official ati drivers. They tear free crap eats 70% of my Cpu when watching a simple xvid,dvdrip .avi file. Now with latest catalyst if i select opelgl for rendering my video still have tearing. Before that was the resolve to tearing. For me AMD sucked and will always suck no matter how many fanboys they win.

                    Intel drivers are open and if u say they are crappy than it means community doesnt do anything to impruve them. Give us the full specs and we take care of the rest is a big pile of crap too. If intel wasnt developing the VA-APi and their drivers u can be sure that community would take to doest tasks like 10 light years.

                    Nvidia on the other hand does or tryied to do a decent job with their drivers on linux.
                    What i want from my crappy AMD based laptop?. Regular normal user stuff :
                    1 . Watch 720p HD videos
                    2. No video tearing by default like nvidia has where i doest eat 70% of ur cpu to ensure tear free experience with terible lagging video and washed out colours.
                    3. And last not the least until they do get good support i recomend anyone going mobile to use intel chips. As i see it sandy bridge has accelerated hardware support for video , feature parity with their windows driver, and leave amd to enjoy their windows ppl not that give a crap about linux people or the linux community.

                    As last thing OSS drivers save the day or else my desktop would be rendered useless. I get like 8% cpu usage playing Xvid videos or bluray rips dvdrips, and like close 50% cpu usage on a 720p HD video. All those things are not posible with ati binary blob + i get the most wasted and ugly colors ever when playing a video.

                    Honestly i think that i have a better chance of fully featured OSS driver in 1-2 years from now than i`ll ever have to see an ATI/AMD official blob that will do the most basic stuff the a computer user needs.
                    I cant buy AMD crap ever again from a company than constantly fails in doing the most basic thing in computing RIVERS. My next laptop will surely be all Intel!

                    Hope i didnt offend anyone and i dont want to start a brand war but since now i only had AMD machines but i`m sick and tired of always lagging behind other users that use intel/nvidia combo.
                    So what you're saying is that all 3 of your major "most basic things a computer needs" are related to HD video playback? That's something that my desktop and laptop spend almost no time doing. I have an HTPC for that, and it works just fine with the AMD OSS drivers on its integrated Radeon HD 3200.

                    My list of basic current needs (based on myself, my wife, and my extended family):

                    1) Stable operation. This above all else.
                    2) Reliable suspend and resume
                    3) Non-lagged window switching
                    4) decent performance playing youtube quality videos (usually 480p at most)
                    5) OpenGL 2.x capabilities for some level of gaming

                    It sounds like most of your current needs revolve around playback of HD video, and probably mostly H.264/VC-1 encoded videos. If that's the case, you're probably best off with either the Nvidia binary drivers and VDPAU or Intel's VA-API library for their drivers.

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                    • #11
                      The thing is AMD was never great on laptops!i dont own a zacate to see the lastest and great of them! But my athlon neo x2 is kindaa underpowerded compared to i3 ultra low voltaje proccesors! AMD/ATI have a tradition and a history of making good hardware with crappy software.

                      The only thing good are OSS drivers! Catalyst is with the same bugs for atleast 2-3 years! in that timeframe OSS drivers progressed by a huge margin, i wouldnt have this alternative i probably be bound to dual boot very often! At the moment 90% of need are met by OSS driver , including 720p video! The catch is that i want or hope for the same stability from ati blob + stability of the OSS drivers. That thing i`m sure will never happen, they rush to add new and new features on top on a buggy driver base, instead of fixing those major bugs like video tearing , VA-API working across the board and other thing.

                      On the other hand i have an AMD sempron with integrated geforce 6150se on the desktop! From the first minutes of install tear free video with min usage to CPU not 70% like on ATI! I`m sure Nvidia drivers arent perfect but ATI if they wanted they could mach NVIDIA in quality of their blobs, or maybe they can maybe Nvidia guys have smarter and more motivated devs + sofware model!

                      I will keep this AMD laptop for 1-2 years at least to see how Ati/AMD improves. My bet is that they will be still where they are today, same old crappy drivers. But on the bright side OSS drivers will catch up maybe to 70% of the blobs performance!

                      And by the way supporting opensource on paper like AMD is doing is worth shit. Facts are those that matter to end user not philosophical support and bla bla all day from AMD shouting YES WE ARE OPEN , VEEERYY OPEN.

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                      • #12
                        Is it just me or Urban Terror is CPU bound?

                        I agree with monraaf that these tests don't help anyone who might be interested in using one of these systems with linux. It would be nice if not all tests were from PTS. Like what about some of the games from the Humble Bundles? I bet World of Goo, Osmos and possibility others run great on this system (@Michael, no need pointing out once again that if we want to see different tests we are free to write scripts or whatever).

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by adriankx View Post
                          I will keep this AMD laptop for 1-2 years at least to see how Ati/AMD improves. My bet is that they will be still where they are today, same old crappy drivers. But on the bright side OSS drivers will catch up maybe to 70% of the blobs performance!
                          I just gave an old Compaq laptop to my brother. The laptop had a Sempron 3000 and 1 GB of RAM (came with 512 MB) and a Radeon XPress 200M.

                          It had, a Vista Capable sticker on it, and when I got my "free" Vista Basic in the mail, horror and hilarity ensued.

                          Not only do these things NOT work, AT ALL with the unified driver (Catalyst) on Windows, neither HP nor ATI/AMD ever made a driver update for Windows XP (since 2005, when the thing shipped), so it only barely worked on Vista at all, it was slow, it was out of memory the moment it finally booted up, and the fan was running constantly, the laptop with Vista, was only good for something if you wanted to fry some eggs on it.

                          FGLRX never worked right, sure it kind of worked, but kind of means that there was no composite support at all, and even Extreme Tux Racer only ran at ~5 fps.

                          Now, with the free stack that shipped with Kubuntu 11.04, now only does KWin compositing work, not only does power management work (which hasn't ever happened aside from the one and only XP driver), you can actually play games on it. Tux Racer maintains about 60 fps, Minecraft is playable.

                          Without free software like Linux and the open source ATI stack this laptop would have been in the garbage instead of alive and kicking and doing useful things for my brother.

                          It won't run Vista or Vista7, it obviously isn't going to run Microsoft Office on them. Funny that LibreOffice runs on KDE with full desktop effects. And the hardware is basically all from 2004.

                          I'm sick of people who mock Linux, and free video drivers because, well. Let's see FGLRX or Vista7 running on this kind of hardware. The only thing you can do with Vista7 and FGLRX is throw the laptop in the trash and buy a new one.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by devius View Post
                            Is it just me or Urban Terror is CPU bound?
                            Urbanterror 4/4.1 is ioquake/quake3 engine and has always lower performance in linux, no matter the driver; because of the engine, I don't know why. Like any quake3 engine, cpu plays big role at low resolutions and game is single-threaded. But to me, it has always been way too inefficient. Also, its bullet math is complete garbage.

                            And with urbanhd you will need to have quake3, ioquake wont do anymore; its also going to be completely closed source and have virus-like anti-cheat.

                            They simply didn't learn from UAA and they constantly fail to listen to opinion.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DaemonFC View Post
                              I'm sick of people who mock Linux, and free video drivers because, well. Let's see FGLRX or Vista7 running on this kind of hardware.
                              Those people want modern features which they fail to see, but windows has them. Why?

                              Not because those features were developed by microsoft for its windows, no. They were developed for windows by various companies, many of which just ignore linux or refer to "to-it-yourself" idiocracy.

                              You know, linux is nerd os and is supported and developed either by communists, nerds or acts as server os. But windows is best os to produce products, you know.

                              Did you know all crappy blizzard battle.net runs on linux?! Yet they fail to produce even single linux client.

                              The dance goes this way:
                              windows occupies all preinstalled computers,since hardware producers get no discounts if they do not preinstall windows(making them almost instantly out of the market)
                              Software and driver producers look and see 98% of market is windows so they write for windows. Linux gets no software.
                              Ordinary joes get windows preinstalled and see that many software is not able for linux. They use windows and the circle rolls further

                              Oh wait, almost forgot. Recently microsoft has sabotaged and infected Nokia, as well as made Novell into its marionette. The day Redhat fails on servers and google on mobile, you can kyogb to linux.

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