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  • #61
    Originally posted by bridgman View Post
    The first task would be to find the bottlenecks. With a graphics driver that is usually a pretty significant task on its own. The graphics driver and the GPU are largely decoupled by a large command buffer and periodic synchronization events so your normal "run the app and see where the time goes" approach doesn't work so well.

    It's more like "run the app, see where the time goes, develop a theory, talk to a few people, if they don't totally demolish your theory then write a bunch of code, see if it makes that app go faster, be happy because it does, test your change on other apps, get PO'ed because your change makes the other apps run slower, repeat".

    Finding bottlenecks would be a good job for the first 5 developers.
    Really? i don't think so. the job for the 5 best devs should be bring openCL to work and dev a raytracing openCL based graphic engine.


    and yes porting wayland to openCL

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
      Really? i don't think so. the job for the 5 best devs should be bring openCL to work and dev a raytracing openCL based graphic engine.


      and yes porting wayland to openCL
      Why, so we could all play a ray-traced game at 1 fps? I'll stick with something that will actually be playable, thanks.

      OpenCL still sucks in the binary drivers enough that no one is committing to it yet, let's wait for someone to at least start using the API before the OSS devs move their attention away from OpenGL.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
        Really? i don't think so. the job for the 5 best devs should be bring openCL to work and dev a raytracing openCL based graphic engine.


        and yes porting wayland to openCL
        Yeah I think we shuold be porting Unity to OpenCL also.

        Dave.

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        • #64
          I can understand Qaridarium in the sense that OpenCL would be nice, fortunately Zack restarted his work, so maybe the state tracker will be finished. After that support would be welcome in the drivers.

          Porting Wayland to OpenCL is by no means the job of radeon developers, so please stop that Qaridarium.

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          • #65
            If I remember the thread correctly the context was 100 devs targetted at performance improvement, not porting Wayland to OpenCL

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            • #66
              Originally posted by HokTar View Post
              I can understand Qaridarium in the sense that OpenCL would be nice, fortunately Zack restarted his work, so maybe the state tracker will be finished. After that support would be welcome in the drivers.

              Porting Wayland to OpenCL is by no means the job of radeon developers, so please stop that Qaridarium.
              Yeah, I noticed that Zack had started committing to the clover branch again a few days ago. This definitely makes me happy, as it means that I'll eventually actually benefit from the results of my own thesis project.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Veerappan View Post
                Yeah, I noticed that Zack had started committing to the clover branch again a few days ago. This definitely makes me happy, as it means that I'll eventually actually benefit from the results of my own thesis project.
                So this means you have started working on the vp8 decoder? Would be awesome!

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by HokTar View Post
                  So this means you have started working on the vp8 decoder? Would be awesome!
                  Yeah, I've started work on it. Nothing to show for it yet beyond a configure option and some stub code that gets inserted into the runtime cpu detection blocks. I've basically added in the infrastructure to let me do the OpenCL execution, but haven't really fleshed out the implementation yet.

                  Before I can really go much further, I'll be doing some more profiling the standard C code and refactoring it a bit to make it more conducive to execution on GPUs, then the real OpenCL fun begins.

                  As for the implementation, I'm currently doing it with AMD's Stream/OpenCL run-time in Ubuntu, but some of the testing will also happen on Nvidia + Mac/Win.

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                  • #69
                    since it was mentioned using opencl for graphics related stuff (even thought i suspect airlied's post was a bit sarcastic )


                    does this thing makes sense???

                    i thought opencl was a framework for tasks that are computation intensive ie decoders, math heavy stuff etc ???

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by 89c51 View Post
                      since it was mentioned using opencl for graphics related stuff (even thought i suspect airlied's post was a bit sarcastic )


                      does this thing makes sense???

                      i thought opencl was a framework for tasks that are computation intensive ie decoders, math heavy stuff etc ???
                      opencl allows you to do massive parallelized computing.
                      thats pretty much what you do, whenever you try to get something onto your screen
                      most of the time you can split the rendering of your screen into many tiny jobs. (sounds ideal for opencl doesnt it)
                      opencl is probably only viable for raytracing. other stuff should probably still be handled by opengl.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
                        Why, so we could all play a ray-traced game at 1 fps? I'll stick with something that will actually be playable, thanks.

                        OpenCL still sucks in the binary drivers enough that no one is committing to it yet, let's wait for someone to at least start using the API before the OSS devs move their attention away from OpenGL.
                        you don't unterstand what raytracing is thats because there are no FPS anymore you get unlimied fps on any kind of hardware with raytracing.

                        on raytracing you have rays per seconds RPS

                        less RPS means just more black or white pixels left per frame.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by 89c51 View Post
                          since it was mentioned using opencl for graphics related stuff (even thought i suspect airlied's post was a bit sarcastic )


                          does this thing makes sense???

                          i thought opencl was a framework for tasks that are computation intensive ie decoders, math heavy stuff etc ???
                          it makes sence thats because openCL is the only API who can beat directX9/10/11

                          you can do better graphics in openCL than directX11 can do it.

                          thats because you can do raytracing in openCL and directX11 can not handle raytracing.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                            it makes sence thats because openCL is the only API who can beat directX9/10/11

                            you can do better graphics in openCL than directX11 can do it.

                            thats because you can do raytracing in openCL and directX11 can not handle raytracing.
                            OpenCL is not a graphics API. It can be used for graphics-related tasks, but it is slower than GL/D3D because it lacks certain fixed-function features (e.g. blending).

                            Of course you can do raytracing in GL/D3D, what do you think people where using all those years before OpenCL was released?

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
                              OpenCL is not a graphics API. It can be used for graphics-related tasks, but it is slower than GL/D3D because it lacks certain fixed-function features (e.g. blending).

                              Of course you can do raytracing in GL/D3D, what do you think people where using all those years before OpenCL was released?
                              in my point of view all fixed function pipelines are just bad in visual Quality.

                              this fake shader lights and shader effects are just bad in quality if you compare this to an real raytracing lighting.

                              show me your D3D code man.

                              they do raytracing in software on the cpu in the past-

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                                you don't unterstand what raytracing is thats because there are no FPS anymore you get unlimied fps on any kind of hardware with raytracing.
                                I think you have no idea what you're talking about. Actually, I KNOW you have no idea what you're talking about. Par for the course.

                                The scenes in a ray tracer are still rendered into a single frame which is displayed once fully assembled. There is a very definite FPS involved in the process.

                                The FPS will be dependent on a similar combination of factors that concerns triangle-mesh rendering, including the destination framebuffer size, number of objects, and complexity of the lighting equations used.

                                The "RPS" you mention is more or less the same idea as the "triangles per second" or "fragment fill rate" that you have on contemporary 3D rasterization hardware. All it indicates is how complex of a scene the hardware can manage while maintaining a usable FPS.

                                Carmack mentioned that he hoped that we'd have MIXED MODE renderers in within 3-5 years. These are not actual ray tracing engines, but rather traditional triangle rasterizers that used some extremely simplified and inaccurate ray tracing techniques to compute shadows and lighting on the GPU during rendering rather than on the CPU before rendering. That's it, nothing more.

                                Also, just to be clear, even if you're right about ray-tracing magically becoming feasible, DirectX is in no way being threatened by OpenCL, because DirectX has DirectCompute -- same damn thing, just a different API and syntax. More games make use of DirectCompute than OpenCL by a huge margin right now, today. (Not for rendering; for physics and such.)

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