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HDCP DRM "master key" found?

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  • #16
    The HDCP hardware is reasonably well separated from the rest of the display hardware so we have been able to publish display programming info without having to get too close to HDCP hardware. The HDCP logic is disabled when running open or binary drivers, ie the output display stream is not HDCP encrypted, and our hope is to keep it that way (ie that there won't be too many display devices which *require* HDCP on their inputs in order to operate).

    AFAIK the deal with the "master key breakthrough" is the ability to create your own dummy "display device" which looks like an HDCP-enabled display but which is actually a digital video capture card (which would not normally receive an HDCP license). It is somewhat orthogonal to GPU and display devices.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by bridgman View Post
      The HDCP hardware is reasonably well separated from the rest of the display hardware so we have been able to publish display programming info without having to get too close to HDCP hardware. The HDCP logic is disabled when running open or binary drivers, ie the output display stream is not HDCP encrypted, and our hope is to keep it that way (ie that there won't be too many display devices which *require* HDCP on their inputs in order to operate).
      You triggered an interesting thought.... the HDCP hardware must also be reasonably separated from the UVD as well, since it must be possible to apply HDCP to non-DRM display output as well in order to be able to, for example, play a DRM-infested video within a WINDOW (or is that not possible?) since you obviously can't mix HDCP and non-HDCP signals on the same cable to the same monitor... meaning that once the final output bits are all lined up, the last (optional? Or DRM-in = HDCP-out?) step would be to run it through HDCP.

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      • #18
        Basically it is just a matter of time until an encryption system which is used in so many devices is broken. Well maybe you can say it is an useless effort, just extra companies can sell tools to break the system first before an open solution is discovered. So who is the real winner?

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Kano View Post
          Basically it is just a matter of time until an encryption system which is used in so many devices is broken. Well maybe you can say it is an useless effort, just extra companies can sell tools to break the system first before an open solution is discovered. So who is the real winner?
          hey they don't care about an real save solution the plan is simple.

          if the copyprotection of the dvd is broken they promote a new system hd-dvd/ blueray then the hddvd copyprotection fails then they jump 100% to blueray and if blueray fails then they jump to an new system.

          and hey they don't care about the HDCP hole because you nees very expensiv hardware to use this masterkey.

          they just hope the people buy bluerays and not a 2000€ hardware solution to copy bluerays over a HDcp masterkey hole.

          and then if the system get a higher pirated rate they will jump to a new system…

          call it nextgen-dvd-with ultra copyprotection.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
            You triggered an interesting thought.... the HDCP hardware must also be reasonably separated from the UVD as well, since it must be possible to apply HDCP to non-DRM display output as well in order to be able to, for example, play a DRM-infested video within a WINDOW (or is that not possible?) since you obviously can't mix HDCP and non-HDCP signals on the same cable to the same monitor... meaning that once the final output bits are all lined up, the last (optional? Or DRM-in = HDCP-out?) step would be to run it through HDCP.
            Droidhacker, HDCP works as a final layer. It is just like HTTPS. when you watch an HD movie which requires HDCP your whole stream from GPU output to screen input is encrypted. UVD works on unencrypted data. The data path from CPU to GPU is also encrypted in Windows if needed but on chip data is unencrypted.

            As Bridgman said (sorry for misspelling your name before), yes a dummy device that receives HDMI signal can be constructed and, since post-processing or acceleration is done un-encrypted, it can be captured. OTOH, AACS is already broken and BD discs are rippable. This has no point.

            As I said before and Bridgman confirmed, UVD and HDCP units are separate. UVD can work without HDCP and, this is sound and perfect. Also about the data rate of the 1080p movies: Sorry. You don't need that bandwidth. Maybe from GPU to screen, yes but, a BD-DL is 50 gigs at most. The remaining motion is extracted from the keyframe in the movie. Only keyframe is a full frame and is a picture. Remaining frames are diffs of the previous frame that contains differential color and motion information.

            This key can be useful for ripping HDCP envelope from HDMI signal and enabling legacy compatibility. There was such a device years ago and it was certified HDCP device. I don't remember its name though.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Silent Storm View Post
              Droidhacker, HDCP works as a final layer. It is just like HTTPS. when you watch an HD movie which requires HDCP your whole stream from GPU output to screen input is encrypted. UVD works on unencrypted data. The data path from CPU to GPU is also encrypted in Windows if needed but on chip data is unencrypted.

              As Bridgman said (sorry for misspelling your name before), yes a dummy device that receives HDMI signal can be constructed and, since post-processing or acceleration is done un-encrypted, it can be captured. OTOH, AACS is already broken and BD discs are rippable. This has no point.

              As I said before and Bridgman confirmed, UVD and HDCP units are separate. UVD can work without HDCP and, this is sound and perfect. Also about the data rate of the 1080p movies: Sorry. You don't need that bandwidth. Maybe from GPU to screen, yes but, a BD-DL is 50 gigs at most. The remaining motion is extracted from the keyframe in the movie. Only keyframe is a full frame and is a picture. Remaining frames are diffs of the previous frame that contains differential color and motion information.

              This key can be useful for ripping HDCP envelope from HDMI signal and enabling legacy compatibility. There was such a device years ago and it was certified HDCP device. I don't remember its name though.
              in my point of view the hdcp hole isn't a problem for the movie industrie because you need highend hardware to rip a movie..

              because of the very high datarate without compression-

              you can buy a lot of bluerays for this hardware i think more than 2000€...

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Silent Storm View Post
                Droidhacker, HDCP works as a final layer. It is just like HTTPS. when you watch an HD movie which requires HDCP your whole stream from GPU output to screen input is encrypted. UVD works on unencrypted data. The data path from CPU to GPU is also encrypted in Windows if needed but on chip data is unencrypted.
                That is exactly what I said...

                As I said before and Bridgman confirmed, UVD and HDCP units are separate. UVD can work without HDCP and, this is sound and perfect. Also about the data rate of the 1080p movies:
                He didn't actually come out and say that. He's very cagey (understandably so) about talking about UVD and DRM related topics. I.e., just because HDCP is disconnected from the things for which AMD has released public documentation (thus allowing us open drivers) does NOT necessarily mean that there aren't some crazy links between the UVD and the HDCP.

                Also about the data rate of the 1080p movies: Sorry. You don't need that bandwidth. Maybe from GPU to screen,
                You seem to have missed that that is precisely what we were talking about... GPU to screen. Which is where HDCP comes in to play and hence the kind of crap you'd be messing with if you were to make use of the master key.

                In other words, that's great that the master key has been dumped, it doesn't really help us with anything.

                yes but, a BD-DL is 50 gigs at most. The remaining motion is extracted from the keyframe in the movie. Only keyframe is a full frame and is a picture. Remaining frames are diffs of the previous frame that contains differential color and motion information.
                I know how that works, and it isn't relevant to the topic of HDCP.

                This key can be useful for ripping HDCP envelope from HDMI signal and enabling legacy compatibility. There was such a device years ago and it was certified HDCP device. I don't remember its name though.
                Whatever it was, it is no doubt banned....
                Now though, shouldn't be too much trouble to hack a TV to give you a massive amount of unencrypted video....


                @Q: Why do you figure that you need such massively expensive equipment to do this? It shouldn't require much more than any cheap-O off the shelf HDMI capture card and some big disks. As long as you can store the 1.5 Gbps data stream to disk in real time, you are free to decrypt at your leisure.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                  in my point of view the hdcp hole isn't a problem for the movie industrie because you need highend hardware to rip a movie..

                  because of the very high datarate without compression-

                  you can buy a lot of bluerays for this hardware i think more than 2000€...
                  Again... 1.5 Gbps. Its not THAT much. Nothing you can't do with 4 or 5 $50 disks. It certainly isn't CONVENIENT, but is definitely DOABLE.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
                    Again... 1.5 Gbps. Its not THAT much. Nothing you can't do with 4 or 5 $50 disks. It certainly isn't CONVENIENT, but is definitely DOABLE.
                    hardware don't mean harddrives...
                    hardware mean mainbaord+cpu+ram+harddrives.
                    5 harddrives at 120€ (2TB devices) = 600€ +100€mainboard+200€ cpu+400€ram+200€ other stuff
                    1500€ overall ;-)

                    yes this is definitely doable !

                    but you don't save money ;-)

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
                      @Q: Why do you figure that you need such massively expensive equipment to do this? It shouldn't require much more than any cheap-O off the shelf HDMI capture card and some big disks. As long as you can store the 1.5 Gbps data stream to disk in real time, you are free to decrypt at your leisure.
                      if you encode the uncompressed datastream in realtime into h264 or WebM you need much more than just a big and fast harddrive.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                        hardware mean mainbaord+cpu+ram+harddrives.
                        Are you writing with your smartphone? Because otherwise I think you already have a computer powerful enough to store the uncompressed stream (with the exception of the hard disks).
                        ## VGA ##
                        AMD: X1950XTX, HD3870, HD5870
                        Intel: GMA45, HD3000 (Core i5 2500K)

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
                          Again... 1.5 Gbps. Its not THAT much. Nothing you can't do with 4 or 5 $50 disks. It certainly isn't CONVENIENT, but is definitely DOABLE.
                          Or if you have a lot of very very fast non-persistent memory and a way to compress on the fly, you could possibly do with normal hard disk.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                            hardware don't mean harddrives...
                            hardware mean mainbaord+cpu+ram+harddrives.
                            5 harddrives at 120€ (2TB devices) = 600€ +100€mainboard+200€ cpu+400€ram+200€ other stuff
                            1500€ overall ;-)

                            yes this is definitely doable !

                            but you don't save money ;-)
                            Think of a criminal organization doing that, then selling full-quality Blu-ray movies that don't have DRM. That's how things used to be with games back a decade or two ago. As I said, this is mostly useful for people wanting to use non-HDCP-conformant displays with HDCP sources or for criminal activities.

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                            • #29
                              The point is: who cares about hdcp when it's possible to EASILY decrypt a blu-ray on the fly?
                              ## VGA ##
                              AMD: X1950XTX, HD3870, HD5870
                              Intel: GMA45, HD3000 (Core i5 2500K)

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                              • #30
                                How easy is it?

                                Does it still involve downloading (or buying) closed software from semi-legal companies on Cayman islands?

                                Because not mainstream Linux player can do it. In fact, no player on Linux can.

                                You can pipe stuff to mplayer if you have all the right volume keys downloaded and whatnot, but I don't think that even this works with BD+.

                                What's the status of this stuff anyway? The last time I read through all the relevant threads over at doom9, it wasn't too great.

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