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S3TC => r600{c,g}

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  • #31
    I've only tried a few apps that use S3TC on r300... Neverwinter Nights, doom3, ut2004, and quake4 come to mind. Of those four, S3TC only works properly with NWN (last I tried).

    Q4 won't even start without S3TC, and using the external lib on r300 with Q4 screws up the textures so bad the game is unplayable (as is the case with ut2004 and doom3). At least UT2004 and Doom3 will run without S3TC as it's not a hard requirement on those games.

    So, here, s3tc works on r300g with one out of four apps. Not exactly impressive, and something that desperately needs to be addressed by someone.

    Adam

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
      in germany software patents are against the law but microsoft win on the highest Court with there FAT software patents.
      But not in Germany.

      Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
      do you really think there are only 2 countries?
      USA and Japan.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by nanonyme View Post
        Gallium can load an external s3tc library on demand if it's available.
        The Mesa Classic driver do the same and if you install the Library the Driver advertise the Extension but in the Application you see only broken Textures.

        I have postet an Link to the Bug Report. In this bug are some Screenshots.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Rothur Cral from http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1373085&page=1
          You don't need to do anything to decompress DXT textures as the card can handle them directly. However, the card needs to be told it is getting compressed textures. Unfortunately, the register documentation released by AMD doesn't give the format codes for DXT textures (for IP reasons). The r300 driver has support because the format codes were guessed.
          Can it be the reason why it's not implemented?

          I did notfind the DXT* register number in the AMD documentation. Or I may have searched wrong.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Nille View Post
            But not in Germany.
            you are kidding on me? i SPEAK for germany!

            M$ won in GERMANY! in the 3. instance highest german Curt



            Originally posted by Nille View Post
            USA and Japan.
            and germany ;-)

            thats because software patents are valid in EU if the patent is bound to the hardware.

            and the S3TC Patent ist bound to the HARDWARE->Graphic-card!

            and the FAT Patent is bound to the HARDWARE (harddrive)


            in german language his is the highest normal curt in germany: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldu...ht-985124.html

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
              you are kidding on me? i SPEAK for germany!
              No, you do not speak for germany


              Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
              thats because software patents are valid in EU if the patent is bound to the hardware.
              and the S3TC Patent ist bound to the HARDWARE->Graphic-card!
              and the FAT Patent is bound to the HARDWARE (harddrive)
              And if its bound to Hardware its no longer an SW Patent in EU.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Nille View Post
                No, you do not speak for germany
                yes just my bad english i mean i speak for the sitation in germany.

                the S3TC patent is valid in germany like the FAT patent in germany.



                Originally posted by Nille View Post
                And if its bound to Hardware its no longer an SW Patent in EU.

                the S3TC patent is bount to hardware (graphic card) means its a valid software patent in germany and EU.

                if you emulate S3TC in the cpu or in 'shader' units without any special gpu features in use this kind of hack is legal in the EU.

                but this slow's the usage of S3TC down very hard.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by adamk View Post
                  I've only tried a few apps that use S3TC on r300... Neverwinter Nights, doom3, ut2004, and quake4 come to mind. Of those four, S3TC only works properly with NWN (last I tried).

                  Q4 won't even start without S3TC, and using the external lib on r300 with Q4 screws up the textures so bad the game is unplayable (as is the case with ut2004 and doom3). At least UT2004 and Doom3 will run without S3TC as it's not a hard requirement on those games.

                  So, here, s3tc works on r300g with one out of four apps. Not exactly impressive, and something that desperately needs to be addressed by someone.

                  Adam
                  Interesting, except for NWN I have played all those games with S3TC enabled on r300g, and I never noticed anything screwed up.

                  Is there a bug report open for this?

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                  • #39
                    Honestly, I'm not aware of a bug report specific to s3tc on r300g. I mostly use FreeBSD, but next time I'm in Fedora, I'll give it a shot again and see if anything has improved.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by RavFX View Post
                      Can it be the reason why it's not implemented?

                      I did notfind the DXT* register number in the AMD documentation. Or I may have searched wrong.
                      Maybe you can ping bridgman about this?

                      There was also some discussion and code written earlier this year, which sort of language lawyered around part of the problem, but I don't think it was ever merged? Not sure if more work was required or somebody silently vetoed the whole idea:
                      http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/m...mail.gmail.com

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                      • #41
                        afaik, s3tc works in mesain two ways:

                        1)rgb/rgba texture compressed with help of libtxc_dxtn and sent to gpu

                        2) s3tc compressed texture sent to gpu

                        so, why not just skip compression in first case, and change texture type to GL_RGB/RGBA

                        in second case - decompress texture, chnage type and send to gpu

                        so bye bye s3tc then

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                        • #42
                          by "bye bye" I mean - problem with s3tc supprot by specific card will be solved forever, not about patents

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by whizse View Post
                            The bad news is that S3TC isn't the only patented stuff in GL3:
                            http://www.x.org/wiki/Events/XDC2009...OpenGL3andMesa
                            Oh, speak of the devil... Luca Barbieri have implemented floating point textures and render targets, will be interested to see how the patent side of things will be handled.

                            Of course also interesting since it's another large part of GL3 - and especially exciting for everyone who lusts after Unigine on free drivers

                            http://lists.freedesktop.org/archive...st/002562.html

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                            • #44
                              Go OpenGL3 in Mesa, go go go!

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by whizse View Post
                                Interesting, except for NWN I have played all those games with S3TC enabled on r300g, and I never noticed anything screwed up.

                                Is there a bug report open for this?
                                I'm happy to say that I'm wrong. I don't know when this was resolved, but doom3 and ut2004 both ran just fine here with r300g + s3tc. Now I can only hope the same happens for r600 (classic or gallium) sometime soon.

                                Adam

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