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Open-Source 2D, 3D For ATI Radeon HD 5000 Series GPUs

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  • #76
    I don't think that the performance of fglrx is better because of secret code, or at least that "secret code" is not the major factor.

    The way I understand it, fglrx performs better because it has had about a thousand man-years of optimization invested in it, whereas the OSS driver has had maybe one man-year. If you invest a similar amount of time, you should approach similar performance, but it's tricky and annoying business.

    Also, the optimizations tend to make the code ugly and unreadable and difficult to maintain, so some optimisations will not be accepted in an open-source project anyway.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by bridgman View Post
      Normally we rely on user and developer feedback to help determine hardware dependencies for problems, but we aren't seeing much feedback yet.
      if you need something from the user community, you could have done the simple thing: ask.

      I've specifically asked if I should file proper bug reports about the things I'm seeing. I'm sure you've all read the question, yet I didn't even get a simple "yes, add all the information you can" or "we know about it already, but we have yet to determine why it happens or which systems are affected.". I sure would have spent more time trying to boil it down to a testcase (instead of playing guild wars) if I had known it would be useful.
      If you really needed testers, you could have asked Michael to add a small news item "AMD wants you to test the evergreen code!"; he gets the hits and you get the results.

      The official information said that you moved on to fusion, and it appeared you were just leaving the evergreen bugs behind to meet the "fusion OSS drivers on release" goal. As often, it took some ramblings of a misinformed user to get some reassuring statements from you - should we all learn from that?


      Now I know that posting on phoronix isn't part of your job description and that all of you are doing awesome work, given the difficulty of the subject and the understaffing. Still, I think a bit more communication could have made a difference here.
      Or are there any other (non-dev) communication channels I'm not aware of?

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      • #78
        I was travelling for the last couple of weeks and wasn't able to keep up with all the forum traffic. When I'm back in town, get home from work, but can't get to sleep I sometimes have a chance to catch up and that's what you are seeing now.

        We weren't stalled waiting for user feedback or anything, my comments were more related to "why don't you give Richard a system that fails ?" rather than "why aren't you making progress ?".

        I don't remember any "official information" saying that we had moved on to Fusion (or hypothetical future discrete GPUs) and were not working on Evergreen. There are various rumours floating around but AFAIK none of them are true and I don't have time right now to hunt them all down and respond to them. Anything related to work on unreleased hardware is particularly difficult to respond to and I'm not even trying to go there right now.

        Unless you hear otherwise, assume that everything is "business as usual", ie the developers are splitting time between a number of different activities, and that we will tend to shift to working on the next generation of hardware once we have basic working functionality on a previous generation so that we can gradually catch up with the rate of new product introduction.

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        • #79
          It probably goes without saying that until we have the current GPU hangs & corruption resolved on Evergreen that work will remain a high priority...

          ... but I'll say it anyways just for clarity

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          • #80
            The "rumours" were straight from phoronix, sounded like he quoted you:
            Open-Source 2D, 3D For ATI Radeon HD 5000 Series GPUs
            Additionally, John will be re-tasking AMD's open-source developers within a week or two. With the foundation of the Evergreen 2D/3D/video support now laid, AMD will leave the rest up to the open-source community to complete while John will take AMD's limited internal developers and begin working on their next-generation support.
            But you have restored my faith, I'm sorry for wavering, and I'll repent by finishing that testcase I was working on

            https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=29986

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            • #81
              Originally posted by rohcQaH View Post
              The "rumours" were straight from phoronix, sounded like he quoted you:

              But you have restored my faith, I'm sorry for wavering, and I'll repent by finishing that testcase I was working on

              https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=29986
              i have the same information and bridgman himself force this as an order.

              but i think this is an smart and good move a faster initial radeon driver support for new hardware turns it into a right way.

              we lost 1 year of bugreporting for everGr800n cards just because the initial support take to long.

              remember a opensource driver with bugs is more than no opensource driver.

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              • #82
                Originally posted by rohcQaH View Post
                The "rumours" were straight from phoronix, sounded like he quoted you:

                But you have restored my faith, I'm sorry for wavering, and I'll repent by finishing that testcase I was working on

                https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=29986
                Michael did accurately represent what I said during our discussion.

                That said, rather than "in a week or two" I guess a more complete statement (from me) would have been "until we get any obvious hardware programming issues resolved and reach the point where the remaining work does not require access to internal hardware information, which I expect to be in a week or two, but which could be longer or shorter depending on the issues we find after initial release".

                I was definitely expecting a week or two of post-release gotcha-fixing, but there was a bigger difference between what users saw and what we saw internally than we had seen on previous initial code drops.

                EDIT - just noticed that the initial release was only 13 days ago, so maybe "a week or two" will still turn out to be an OK guess

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                  remember a opensource driver with bugs is more than no opensource driver.
                  That's a good one. I'll throw it right back at you later this month when you're having problems again with the latest catalyst release.

                  It doesn't matter if the driver isn't working for you, just remember a non working driver is better than no driver at all!

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                  • #84
                    You do have to give him points for "everGr800n" though

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                    • #85
                      BTW latest status is that the current problems appear to be understood and Alex has started working on a set of patches. Current thinking is that mesa, ddx and drm will all need to be touched although the changes are pretty small. Check back tomorrow and hopefully there will be patches available.

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                        BTW latest status is that the current problems appear to be understood and Alex has started working on a set of patches. Current thinking is that mesa, ddx and drm will all need to be touched although the changes are pretty small. Check back tomorrow and hopefully there will be patches available.
                        Awesome, Bridgman ^^, (and others)

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                        • #87
                          The GPU lockups appear to be fixed. Grab the latest mesa and ddx code from git and make sure you have this drm patch:
                          http://lists.freedesktop.org/archive...er/003531.html

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
                            Awesome, Bridgman ^^, (and others)
                            Hey, I just sit in the big chair and read what they put in front of me

                            Thanks go to to agd5f for digging through multiple layers of "the problem seems to be XYZ but that doesn't make sense" investigation to find the underlying problems, monraaf for pointing out the "run fglrx first" workaround (which gave agd5f a starting point), the other folks here who posted about their experiences with the code, and the internal AMD folks (HW and SW teams) who helped agd5f understand what else had changed in the hardware.

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                            • #89
                              Awesome, Monraaf and Agd5f ^^, (and others)

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by monraaf View Post
                                That's a good one. I'll throw it right back at you later this month when you're having problems again with the latest catalyst release.

                                It doesn't matter if the driver isn't working for you, just remember a non working driver is better than no driver at all!
                                nice try but... catalyst 10.8 gives me 100% of what i need.

                                my card do not support openGL4.1 in general so i don'T worry about openGL4.1 in catalyst 10.10

                                so why should i care abour catalyst 10.9??? 10.8 gives me all i need.

                                and yes its still true a buged driver is still more than no driver.

                                and an buged opensource driver can be fixed by humans!

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