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  • Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
    Is that a promise? That leaves about a month and a half left to release it.

    Do you have any idea about how long we'll have to wait for Fusion? It's supposed to be coming out around Sept. isn't it?
    Edit: Hmm, now I'm seeing 1st half 2011, so I guess it's further out than i thought.

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    • That part that bridgman leaves off is that the eventual plan is for them to be all caught up, no longer need to spend dev time adding support for released products or massive new driver architecture, and be able to start pushing driver support for new parts before they hit the shelves.

      Granted, unless they push it well over 6 months in advance, you'll still be stuck with shiny new Linux distro install CDs that don't have the requisite support, since both the Linux kernel and now X.org have taken the user-hostile approach of breaking the driver API (and ABI) every release. Nothing says "cares about users" like forcing them to upgrade their entire OS and application stack (and then get the whole new slew of bugs and arbitrary UI changes the desktop stacks seem to get every six months) just to get support for a new piece of hardware.

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      • Originally posted by elanthis View Post
        Nothing says "cares about users" like forcing them to upgrade their entire OS and application stack (and then get the whole new slew of bugs and arbitrary UI changes the desktop stacks seem to get every six months) just to get support for a new piece of hardware.
        Usually you can just upgrade the kernel, libdrm, xorg and mesa to the latest stable or development versions and have the rest of the distribution work fine with no user visible changes.

        Often the best way is to tell the package manager to install those packages (and only those) from the distribution development branch.

        It's however best to upgrade all those components together to avoid possible weird issues, suboptimal performance or missing features.

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        • Originally posted by elanthis View Post
          That part that bridgman leaves off is that the eventual plan is for them to be all caught up, no longer need to spend dev time adding support for released products or massive new driver architecture, and be able to start pushing driver support for new parts before they hit the shelves.

          Granted, unless they push it well over 6 months in advance, you'll still be stuck with shiny new Linux distro install CDs that don't have the requisite support, since both the Linux kernel and now X.org have taken the user-hostile approach of breaking the driver API (and ABI) every release. Nothing says "cares about users" like forcing them to upgrade their entire OS and application stack (and then get the whole new slew of bugs and arbitrary UI changes the desktop stacks seem to get every six months) just to get support for a new piece of hardware.
          All you need to replace is the kernel, though, and mesa + DDX driver. That's not really any more intrusive than getting a binary driver. Besides, it's much better than the alternative of having a system like windows where your stuck with legacy decisions made in the DOS days and can't ever change because everyone else relies on it.

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          • Originally posted by Agdr View Post
            Usually you can just upgrade the kernel, libdrm, xorg and mesa to the latest stable or development versions and have the rest of the distribution work fine with no user visible changes.
            And note that the interfaces exposed by those components as a whole (the non-GPU-specific kernel ABI, OpenGL and the X11 API) are very stable and there is full commitment to keeping compatibility forever for them.

            Some core kernel developers even run ancient distributions on some of their test machines to ensure this is the case.

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            • Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
              Is that a promise? That leaves about a month and a half left to release it.

              Do you have any idea about how long we'll have to wait for Fusion? It's supposed to be coming out around Sept. isn't it?
              It's not a promise, but I think we're pretty close.

              We aren't going to talk much about specifics of the Fusion parts until the public launch. In the meantime I'll just re-iterate that "getting ready for Fusion" was one of the original objectives for the open source graphics project, that our goal was to be more or less caught up with new product introduction by the time Fusion parts launched, and that Alex already has an Ontario engineering board.

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              • Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
                It's supposed to be coming out around Sept. isn't it?
                My last Info for the APU is Q2/Q2 2011

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                • Originally posted by Agdr View Post
                  Usually you can just upgrade the kernel, libdrm, xorg and mesa to the latest stable or development versions and have the rest of the distribution work fine with no user visible changes.
                  Normal users do not do that, should not need to do that, and largely don't have the skill to do that. Even the people that CAN do that usually are going to want to do other things with their time given the choice... like go to the beach, get laid, or enjoy a hobby that doesn't lead to RSI.

                  Compiling kernels and such is for people like us: developers and tech-oriented testers. Regular users should NEVER be expected to do that kind of bullshit. The second you claim otherwise is the second you have completely and utterly lost touch with reality.

                  Either the distros need to roll out new releases of the kernel and X automatically to users on older releases (or better yet, stop releasing frozen appliance-style package sets every six months in favor of a 2-3 year base platform release cycle, with six month platform-extension SPs, rolling updates for new hardware support and fixes, and crazy-easy-to-use third-party application repository support) or the drivers need to be distributable as installers that can work on a range of carved-into-stone distribution releases.

                  </my-typical-off-topic-liunx-blows-for-regular-joes-rant>

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                  • The most Distributions ship an Bleeding edge Kernel.
                    E.g for Ubuntu http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/
                    And if you want the Latest DDX, libdrm, Mesa etc. there is an PPA https://launchpad.net/~xorg-edgers/+archive/ppa

                    So you don't need to compile anything.

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                    • Originally posted by elanthis View Post
                      Normal users do not do that, should not need to do that, and largely don't have the skill to do that. Even the people that CAN do that usually are going to want to do other things with their time given the choice... like go to the beach, get laid, or enjoy a hobby that doesn't lead to RSI.

                      Compiling kernels and such is for people like us: developers and tech-oriented testers. Regular users should NEVER be expected to do that kind of bullshit. The second you claim otherwise is the second you have completely and utterly lost touch with reality.
                      You don't need to compile anything yourself.

                      Often, you can find repositories with updated components (e.g. Ubuntu PPAs) and otherwise use the packages from the development branch.

                      With Ubuntu, I believe you can add PPAs just by clicking on a link in the browser, so it's a matter of doing a search for the PPA or getting a link from some howto/forum, clicking the link, clicking "Upgrade" in the package manager and rebooting.
                      This isn't really harder than upgrading a driver on Windows.

                      BTW, consider that even on Windows, if you use a notebook, driver upgrades (used to?) require you to get a third-party modding tool to literally patch the proprietary drivers, as it would otherwise refuse to install. This is not exactly user friendly.

                      Or alternatively, wait months/years/forever for the notebook manufacturer to release an official update.

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                      • Originally posted by Nille View Post
                        My last Info for the APU is Q2/Q2 2011
                        I mean Q1/Q2

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                        • Originally posted by nille View Post
                          i mean q1/q2
                          q4 2010 ;-)

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                          • apparently "Q4 2010" means the same thing as "coming this month" meant in this thread's first post.

                            It means that Q is as clueless as ever.

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                            • Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                              q4 2010 ;-)
                              I don't think so. If we are optimistic Q1 2011

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                              • Originally posted by rohcQaH View Post
                                apparently "Q4 2010" means the same thing as "coming this month" meant in this thread's first post.

                                It means that Q is as clueless as ever.
                                sometimes its better to be clueless ;-)

                                i read it a little different:

                                smitty3268:"Is that a promise? That leaves about a month and a half left to release it."[...]

                                Bridgman: "It's not a promise, but I think we're pretty close."


                                or my favorite version:

                                smitty3268:"[...]Do you have any idea about how long we'll have to wait for Fusion? It's supposed to be coming out around Sept. isn't it?"

                                Bridgman: "It's not a promise, but I think we're pretty close."


                                means 3DEver-Gr800n Radeon driver or fusion notebooks in Q4 2010 ;-)

                                proofed by 'Bridgman'

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