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  • #16
    Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
    Another thing to note: from my perspective, slower moving driver development seems to be beneficial at this stage in the game. There are MASSIVE architectural changes being implemented, so pouring all your resources into getting "full support" out for current architecture might mean wasting a huge amount of it when the current architecture becomes obsolete. When you slow down, you get to see the big picture, and get to adapt to the trends rather than ending up with something that is really out of place -- like, for example, both AMD's and NVIDIA's blob drivers lack KMS. Intel, moving at a snail's pace and leaning a little more open (even with their CLOSED drivers) have KMS implemented across the board.
    Bah... that perspective would progress towards inevitable failure. It's contrary to that, you want to be able to adapt and be quick for such progressions and changes. Going slow just means you're always playing catch up and various projects will be made 'broken' or made obsolete. It's what AMD/ATI does right now and obviously, it's not working and many Linux users are dissatisfied.

    I think it's possible to take a long look at the big picture and where things are heading without taking it slow. The main problem is having quality when you work towards efficiency.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Panix View Post
      Bah... that perspective would progress towards inevitable failure. It's contrary to that, you want to be able to adapt and be quick for such progressions and changes. Going slow just means you're always playing catch up and various projects will be made 'broken' or made obsolete. It's what AMD/ATI does right now and obviously, it's not working and many Linux users are dissatisfied.

      I think it's possible to take a long look at the big picture and where things are heading without taking it slow. The main problem is having quality when you work towards efficiency.
      Implement now for the future: You end up with something that doesn't work now and might never work.
      Implement now for now: You end up with something that works now, but won't for long.

      Wait until things settle down a little bit: You save a pile of $$ and end up with something that works in the future.

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      • #18
        I came exactly to the same conclusion as droidhacker.

        Look at what AMD did in the 07-09 years: pretty much nothing.
        R800 comes out: some sort of support for the chip and OpenGL+CL support.
        In the last months: mainly power management.

        The plan was never to actually support ATI cards. closed driver is there for FireGL cards. Legacy cards (that will include evergreen) will be supported probably half of 2011 since they will need the driver for fusion. Their aim is to release fusion with great opensource support so system admin can build massive servers based on fusion with thin clients around.
        My guess other guess is that nvidia is waiting for AMD to spend money developing their hardware for them to opensource their own driver.

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        • #19
          I guess I don't know the process but if that was the policy, it would be constant catchup and alternate with 'watch and react.' Planning and anticipating can always be done. Video drivers need a constant mod since various architectures that effect it are constantly changing and progressing. Constantly working on them means you learn and adjust.

          If you implement for later and there's issues, what do you have to trace back?

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Gizmot View Post
            The plan was never to actually support ATI cards. closed driver is there for FireGL cards. Legacy cards (that will include evergreen) will be supported probably half of 2011 since they will need the driver for fusion. Their aim is to release fusion with great opensource support so system admin can build massive servers based on fusion with thin clients around.
            Well, then that's the problem then. No plan for support. You're done, finished. The End.

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            • #21
              (scratches head)

              How do you think we are going to take support away ? Carpet-bomb the freedesktop.org server farm and send ninja assassins out to collect the heads of all the developers who understand the open source driver code ?

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              • #22
                You gotta love the internet. People unrelated to ATI construct something in their head as what they believe to be "ATI's plan", they put it on the internet and then other people take that as a fact.

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                • #23
                  We will get great support from ATI because of fusion... they are working on it. But it should be ready next year for fusion launch. end of story.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                    (scratches head)

                    How do you think we are going to take support away ? Carpet-bomb the freedesktop.org server farm and send ninja assassins out to collect the heads of all the developers who understand the open source driver code ?
                    So that's why there are so few devs! They're afraid....

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                    • #25
                      Gizmot, I don't really understand your comments about not doing anything in 07-09...

                      2007 - launch open source graphics project, launch r6xx, display support for 5xx/6xx

                      2008 - EXA, Xv acceleration for 1xx-5xx, launch r7xx, display support for r7xx, initial EXA, Xv acceleration for r6xx/r7xx, assist with KMS display support for r1xx-r5xx

                      2009 - finish EXA, Xv acceleration for r6xx/r7xx, 3D acceleration for 6xx/7xx, launch Evergreen, assist with KMS display support for r6xx-r7xx

                      2010 - display support for Evergreen, working on EXA, Xv, 3D accel for Evergreen now

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by curaga View Post
                        So that's why there are so few devs! They're afraid....
                        Yeah, everyone fears ninja assassins. You can't really blame them, I guess.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                          Gizmot, I don't really understand your comments about not doing anything in 07-09...

                          2007 - launch open source graphics project, launch r6xx, display support for 5xx/6xx

                          2008 - EXA, Xv acceleration for 1xx-5xx, launch r7xx, display support for r7xx, initial EXA, Xv acceleration for r6xx/r7xx, assist with KMS display support for r1xx-r5xx

                          2009 - finish EXA, Xv acceleration for r6xx/r7xx, 3D acceleration for 6xx/7xx, launch Evergreen, assist with KMS display support for r6xx-r7xx

                          2010 - display support for Evergreen, working on EXA, Xv, 3D accel for Evergreen now
                          meanwhile, at nvidia...



                          Development could have been a lot faster. My guess is that some guys/gals convinced someone at AMD to keep to opensource driver alive for the day this will be needed. Not to fast, just enough to develop knowledge on opensource drivers. Speed is ramping up fast. 2011: FGLXR will be dropped and both teams will be merged. 2012: windows driver is dropped and based on the opensource driver like nvidia for their blob. 2020: skynet produced on fusion5 chips. 2022: skynet gains self awereness. 2023: War 2024: AMD infect skynet with antic fglxr old driver 2025: humity win war thanks to AMD cleverness.

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                          • #28
                            Damn, someone leaked our master plan.

                            Call out the ninja assassins !!

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                            • #29
                              And no, we're not sending Cameron out after you. Nice try.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                                And no, we're not sending Cameron out after you. Nice try.
                                I was afraid it would be a bunch of pirate ninjas riding sharks with lasers on the heads

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