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Talking Radeon GLSL From X@FOSDEM 2010

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  • #46
    i understand both points here, but the thing here if not only if phoronix use privative software(lol btw) or not is about 2 forces struggling here.

    is true privative software isnt bad, god even been a linux user i pay for my licenses where it needed. so what is the real issue here.

    1.) OSS advocates are cheap bastards? normally no but in both side there are always cheap bastards
    2.) all software should be free? hell no, that will kill the human resource for next generation (only true geeks will gradute in this job knowing there is no job market for them) so commercial software is needed as OSS is a 50 50 thing.
    3.) all privative software is bad? no, as long you have a choice aka i can buy nero for linux cuz is actually pretty competitive (could be better thow) but i can use k3b too for example.
    4.) so why mp3/h264/etc even "free" for non commercial use is bad? is not the codec per se. look all normal software market is about choice example i only go to buy adobe dreamweaver cuz i like it not cuz is an standard or i go to pgi to buy a commercial compiler cuz i feel it fit best with my C++ code so in any way im not tied to them cuz competence exist from the beggining and even pretty rough competition on the OSS is available too. so the real issues with media patents is the way they behave. aka this patents companies are mostly cover up for big media firms (sony, universal, etc) and this american dinosaours companys still play the monopoly type of bussiness (i know there should be laws against that but they have the most expensive lawyer the money can pay to handle the zillion legal procedure for anti trust they have and well you know what will happen rigth? )

    5.) what is the influence of those methods anyway?, i can still hear my mp3 free!!.

    well as you may know, studios believe with drm everything, piracy will go down but piracy was born cuz of their bussiness model. so this cicle begun a war between both faction. hackers break it studio make it more closed and more expensive and well most companies have to stay to dont losse market share and face legal procedure in retaliation.

    so let me give you an personal experience, im making a distro for some especific clients of mine, so at first i thought well lets integrate mp3 along with flac and ogg in my application so my user have a open set of alternatives to save their files, cool rigth? ok so my lawyer contact xiph.org just to be sure and all was super fine, then naturally he goes to talk with mp3 patent holders to get thing rigth. some days later we found ourselve a meeting and well i explained all the tech stuff ill will do with their codec and they ask me which OS my will use, and i said Linux ofc(lol of me), the guy look me weird and said they dont offer support in "that" OS so i should consider use windoze, i said no way in hell, bla bla bla, the dude reponse well you are on you own, i said hey fine by me. at the end they told that for my country microsoft hold the legal stuff to give me the licensing (i couldnt belive it lol),
    i still naive call the regional microsft office nd explain all the crap again, their response was denied at first cuz one of their gold member got a similar apps in my country market so it was no bussiness for them to allow me to use it too, so after many legal crap we got a response like
    "reconsidreing your petitions, bla bla bla, we can allow you the use of the patents and blah blah blah for the initial amount of XXX.XXX,00 american dollars and a post payment per royalty over content encoded of XX,00 dollars. that was the lolest thing ever heard and tehy even sent me a second option much cheaper if i accept migrate the app to windows server 2008 and become a partner and sign an agreement of exclusivity with them !!!LOL!!!. rigth in my fragging face try to sue them but no use.

    so if today stuff like ogg or theora didnt exist me and many companies will just go to bankrupcy or out of market victims of that dirty extortion. so using OSS i could offer a much cheap alternative to my clients and after explaining them the issues they understood and agree if needed they will transcode it later to mp3.

    the importance of OSS standards in the topics is vital to the industry grow and for the user to remain free to choose. i dare you prove me that the web can be what is today if html, CSS, ajax, php, etc where owned by this company instead of be OSS.

    you as user loose too in this situatuion, your mp3 player could be cheaper or have more space to hold songs or a better material if that company didint have to cut a 45% cost to be able to pay of the patent and royalty for mp3 and still be buyable. or your rented movies in netflix could be more cheaper if they didnt have to pay the huge money for the h264 royalty and patents for example, lol even your monthly pay for online porn would be cheaper .

    so in any way im forcing you to choose OSS or anything like that, i just what to enligth you that an OSS standrad in this kind of sector will benefit everybody (except the greedy dirty pigs of the studios, ofc)

    just imagine a software world totally owned by microsoft, sony, unversal, apple. im sure you will get the creeps, especially since your current laptop would cost 15k$ + 50% per file open cuz microsft hold the IP of your files too and running win95 renamed with better icons.

    this is the reason we try so hard to change ppl minds here to avoid that kind of future but at the end is always your choice

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    • #47
      Wow. I started reading this thread to see if there was something new about Radeon but all I got was trolls trolling trolls about patents.

      Way to turn any thread to crap.

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      • #48
        Like the trolling of a great bell.

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        • #49
          Right, but you insist in changing the terms of the discussion. I wasn't arguing about patents in general. If you want to discuss those you'll have to find somebody else to beat up, because I may even agree with you. If you read what I wrote you won't find a case to defend proprietary formats over unencumbered ones. What you will find is me talking about the specific issues of mp3 audio, and particularly from the point of view of the end user, since that is precisely the case of Phoronix readers in relation to the uploaded file.

          In that specific case you will have a hard time to find any negative consequences arising from the choice of codec Phoronix made. Contrary to what you initially and incorrectly claimed, everybody has the technical means to play mp3 files, mp3 playback is legal everywhere and no extra payments are to be done as of Friday, February 19th 2010. In these respects, and in this context, Vorbis represents no advantage over mp3. Unless you want to argue about the technical superiority of Vorbis--which was never the issue--all you really have in this case is the symbolic value of choosing an unencumbered format. How important this is for you and why you made it clear, providing examples that, however, do not apply here.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Apopas View Post
            Originally posted by yotambien
            Seriously now, what were the reasons originally given for not pleasing you? That's the core issue. You mentioned a vote or something, which I must have completely missed. As I said, I too would expect a more "OSS friendly" format, knowing what a lot of people over here think; surely there must be a reason for the decision, if only perhaps a trivial one.
            I doubt there is a thing like "more oss friendly". It's just OSS or not. Anyway, I'm a free software advocate [...]

            There was a vote some time ago about proprietary media formats in phoronix that was made by another pissed user like me. As we see, it didn't change anything though...
            Actually I was asking about what reasons Michael gave for not using Vorbis when that poll took place. I'm curious now.

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