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  • #31
    Originally posted by Neuro View Post
    I guess that this is where calculations come in. Is it better to risk the outcry of the users or risk huge fines?
    It does rise a particular question, to which I don't know the answer since I'm not a lawyer in the US corporate-law-funnyland: Let's say a consumer bought a Bluray player/HDCP card and bought it sole purpose of playing Blueray disks. After that keys in his device get revoked, because someone recovered them and published. This would render his device, for which he paid quite a lot of money, incapable of playing new Blueray disks. In other words: revoking the keys would break his property... Wouldn't he be eligible to sue someone? Wouldn't this spawn massive class-action suits?
    I'm not a lawyer either, but... I damn sure wish I was when THAT one happens!

    The problem for those advocating such solutions is no matter which way the courts rule, the PR damage is going to be devastating if it's ever used, and they have handed an attacker a target that is unarguably legal to devastate a LOT of people. Think of the fun a virus writer could have...

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    • #32
      There is some sneakyness to this problem...
      The thing isn't going to outright say that your keys are revoked. It just isn't going to work. So if they revoke the keys while the device is under warranty, then they replace the thing under warranty (as if it were defective). If it is out of warranty, then you need to reverse engineer it in order to PROVE the reason why it stops working.

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      • #33
        Good luck explaining that one to the worlds media: All the devices just "stopped working" at the same time? They will want to come clean as otherwise the damage is even worse. Having a reputation for shipping shoddy equipment is commercial suicide, and in it's "just failed", over here consumers are legally entitled to a refund. No matter how it played out, a major key revocation is going to inflict serious damage on all involved.

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        • #34
          I just saw the Radeon feature matrix:
          http://www.x.org/wiki/RadeonFeature

          It appearst that:
          "Video Decode (XvMC/VDPAU/VA-API) using UVD" became TODO. Does that mean that someone gave a green light to UVD or is this just wishfull thinking?

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          • #35
            A more interesting thing is that it is WIP on shaders for r300g! Who is working on this?

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            • #36
              Originally posted by neuro View Post
              i just saw the radeon feature matrix:
              http://www.x.org/wiki/radeonfeature

              it appearst that:
              "video decode (xvmc/vdpau/va-api) using uvd" became todo. Does that mean that someone gave a green light to uvd or is this just wishfull thinking?
              go go go ! :d

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Neuro View Post
                It appearst that: "Video Decode (XvMC/VDPAU/VA-API) using UVD" became TODO. Does that mean that someone gave a green light to UVD or is this just wishfull thinking?
                From what Bridgman has said that the legal review will take months and it wasn't even started a month ago, I'd say wishful thinking. The legal stuff never takes shorter than you expect, only longer...

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Neuro View Post
                  I just saw the Radeon feature matrix:
                  http://www.x.org/wiki/RadeonFeature

                  It appearst that:
                  "Video Decode (XvMC/VDPAU/VA-API) using UVD" became TODO. Does that mean that someone gave a green light to UVD or is this just wishfull thinking?
                  "TODO" means that someone needs to write the code. The required knowledge to write the code may or may not be known. Please ask on #radeon if you want to get your feet wet on this.
                  I'm guessing the latter. Maybe the statuses need to be a little more user-friendly?

                  "DONE" = "YES"
                  "MOSTLY" = "KINDA"
                  "WIP" = "SOON"
                  "BIOS" = "DEPENDS"
                  "N/A" = "CAN'T"
                  "N/N" = "NOT GONNA/NO POINT"
                  "TODO" = "NOT YET"
                  "UNKNOWN" = "DUNNO"

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Neuro View Post
                    I just saw the Radeon feature matrix:
                    http://www.x.org/wiki/RadeonFeature

                    It appearst that:
                    "Video Decode (XvMC/VDPAU/VA-API) using UVD" became TODO. Does that mean that someone gave a green light to UVD or is this just wishfull thinking?
                    Bad news for you: "We have not released specs for the video decoder block (UVD) and have no plans to do so". That's from an interview with Terry Makedon, Manager of Software Product Management. Source: http://www.pcinpact.com/dossiers/amd...edon/167-5.htm

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by gbeauche View Post
                      Bad news for you: "We have not released specs for the video decoder block (UVD) and have no plans to do so". That's from an interview with Terry Makedon, Manager of Software Product Management. Source: http://www.pcinpact.com/dossiers/amd...edon/167-5.htm
                      "No plans" is NOT logically equivalent to "Will not". There is a HUGE difference.

                      In fact logically, "No plans" means nothing more than "has not cleared IP/legal review". It *MUST* clear IP/legal review BEFORE plans can be developed for release.

                      Further "HAVE PLANS" would logically imply that it HAS cleared IP/legal review, which it has NOT.

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                      • #41
                        Exactly. UVD support is not in the plan right now, but we have said that we will investigate whether it is possible to add it to the plan once we get caught up with existing work (ie we don't plan to put UVD ahead of anything already in the plan).

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                        • #42
                          Hey, thanks for that link to the article/interview. It was particularly interesting to me. I think it's the same story I suggested before, namely, not enough developers and engineers. ATI/AMD people (here) might insist otherwise or assure everything's okay but that is my perspective and I'm not changing my mind about that any time soon. It's just whether you want to risk enough 'being done' on the Linux side.

                          I think the quote of 'no plans to do so' refers to no plans to release specs so the UVD features will remain only for the proprietary driver feature side. That's how I interpreted. I notice that no proprietary support is planned for the BSD systems. Like I said, it all seems like not enough manpower and the interviewer was good and persistent by asking about this.

                          I think I've read a perspective here or somewhere of the hardware being superior to Nvidia's overall but the support seems fragmented (lack of me being able to come up with a better word at the moment!) and undermanned. Too bad too. I don't know if I would want to invest in new or $100+ cards knowing there's so much uncertainty with the drivers. Windows drivers will be priority #1 for a long time and when there's that split proprietary/open source driver project, dare I say you get no optimization on either side because of the divide? Maybe one or the other is good enough, though, but I guess you can't find out unless you try it out with a card? How much is that worth though, that experiment? Ummmm....

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                            Exactly. UVD support is not in the plan right now, but we have said that we will investigate whether it is possible to add it to the plan once we get caught up with existing work (ie we don't plan to put UVD ahead of anything already in the plan).
                            Thanks for chiming in. So, what *is* the current plan?
                            -- drm: considered done, I guess
                            -- kms: pretty much done, since it's out of staging
                            -- r300 and r600 haven't seen too much lately (since the irq and displayport support - almost forgot blitting, but still no tiling)
                            -- pm: halfway through, but as I see it only Rafal is working on it

                            So focus might be on:
                            -- evergreen: I think it's Alex's job (btw, why are you not consistent here and call it r800 in filenames?)
                            -- pm is still a topic
                            -- r300g is progressing mostly thanks to Marek and Corbin

                            What we lack:
                            -- speed: someone mentioned that the bottleneck is dri2. Is there anyone working on that?
                            -- r600g: almost nothing so far
                            -- af: still no specs (is aa implemented?)
                            -- uvd: still no specs
                            -- opencl: OK, first we need a proper state tracker in G3D, I guess
                            -- opengl 3.x: I have no idea if anybody is writing code for this. Maybe GLU3 is a step in this direction.

                            Regarding all these uvd rants: there was a GSoC project to do this on shaders, right? What about that? Wouldn't that be a relatively easy solution for the time being? Most of us would probably be satisfied with such a partial solution. So, are there any plans to work on that?

                            You also mentioned the IP reviews. So what are the topics that are underway or queued? Evergreen, af for r600 (at least), uvd. Are there anything else?

                            Well, I hope I don't seem to be aggressive here. I just collected all the info I could in order to get a clear picture about what is going to happen in the coming months or year. It would be really helpful and much appreciated if you could give me an exhaustive answer. Thank you for your time and efforts!

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                            • #44
                              Yeah, "the plan" is on my PC rather than on a wiki page, guess I should change that

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                                Yeah, "the plan" is on my PC rather than on a wiki page, guess I should change that
                                Any *plans* to do so?

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