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R600 Open-Source Driver WIth GLSL, OpenGL 2.0

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  • #41
    Originally posted by Louise View Post
    John Carmack have said that the solution to the parallelization problem might be writing your entire game in a scripting language and the just let the system handle all the multi core stuff.
    How would that work? AFAIK, the big problem with multi-core is data dependencies among various threads killing performance (i.e. Thread A is waiting on the result of Thread B which is waiting on the result of Thread C...), so unless "the system" is going to redesign your algorithms for you I'm not sure how it's supposed to be a solution.

    Originally posted by barbarbaron
    Let me remind you that r600-r700 opengl 2.0 and GLSL support in radeon driver has been pushed by an AMD employee; Richard Li. With the release of Ubuntu 10.04 or F13 we will all see r600-r700 users playing ET Quake Wars on their computers with good performance while r500 performance will remain GARBAGE.
    This makes it clear that AMD urges us users to upgrade to newer GPUs by supporting whatever feature they see fit. Well I will definitely upgrade to a new GPU as you guys suggest, but an NVIDIA ONE.
    This was already addressed (more than once) in the first page of the thread. The reason you don't see a headline like this for R300-R500 is that the corresponding change on those chipsets already happened, but in the Gallium3D driver. In other words, the actual situation is almost the opposite of what you think it is: with the transition to Gallium3D, the older chipsets will be ahead of the newer ones in the open-source stack (even as an R600 user who prefers open-source drivers, I have to admit that makes sense for several reasons ).
    Last edited by Ex-Cyber; 12-22-2009, 07:07 AM.

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    • #42
      Originally posted by Ex-Cyber View Post
      How would that work? AFAIK, the big problem with multi-core is data dependencies among various threads killing performance (i.e. Thread A is waiting on the result of Thread B which is waiting on the result of Thread C...), so unless "the system" is going to redesign your algorithms for you I'm not sure how it's supposed to be a solution.
      In id Software's upcoming game, Rage, they have hand scheduled the expensive tasks off to their own threads, and let the game code stay in a single threaded form.

      They did the same with Enemy Territory.

      In both cases, the game code is the bottle neck.

      But as Carmack said, it was a consious decision, as they didn't want the game programmers to worry about parallelization. The game code programmers should only care about writing the code that makes the game fun.

      The system programmers that does the hard core stuff like rendering, obstacle avoidance, collision detection and so on, they should handle the parallelization problems.

      So I think that Carmack was talking about the game code, when he talked about using a scripting language.

      Doom 4 will be build with the same model, so it is something he stands by, that the game code should be easy to write.

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      • #43
        @Ex-Cyber:
        with the transition to Gallium3D, the older chipsets will be ahead of the newer ones in the open-source stack
        @Dragonx:
        Sooo.. just to sum it up: R600+ can choose between radeon and fglrx if they want (useable) 3d accel (--> GLSL) and <=R500 users have to use an old fglrx? Is this correct? *THUMBS UP* to ATi.. definately my last ati/amd board..
        +1

        Who will be ahead of who? Aaah yes in the open source stack... We r100-r500 users are VERY familiar with it...
        Last edited by barbarbaron; 12-22-2009, 07:48 AM.

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        • #44
          Originally posted by barbarbaron View Post
          Aaah yes in the open source stack
          Yes, the open-source stack. You know, the one that's the subject of the article and the one in which you were complaining about R600+ being favored over R300-R500. You should take a breather; those goalposts look heavy.

          Originally posted by Louise
          So I think that Carmack was talking about the game code, when he talked about using a scripting language.
          Ah, that makes more sense. I suppose in some sense the engine is "the system" from a gameplay development standpoint.

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          • #45
            I used to have a lot of respect for this site but now it's nothing more than a spin room for them lackeys from ATI.
            Last edited by rob2687; 12-22-2009, 11:20 AM.

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            • #46
              Originally posted by barbarbaron View Post
              Sooo.. just to sum it up: R600+ can choose between radeon and fglrx if they want (useable) 3d accel (--> GLSL) and <=R500 users have to use an old fglrx? Is this correct? *THUMBS UP* to ATi.. definately my last ati/amd board..
              Who will be ahead of who? Aaah yes in the open source stack... We r100-r500 users are VERY familiar with it...
              Barbarbaron, if you are going to quote opinions like that as fact you should really quote the responses as well.

              Otherwise you will just end up misleading people and making yourself unhappy in the process.

              If you own 3xx-5xx hardware (you have X1950 ?) you should get familiar with building and running the Gallium3D driver - it's not ready for general use yet but it's making good progress and already has GLSL and GL 2.1 enabled. At minimum you should be monitoring the progress but it wouldn't hurt to try it out periodically. You'll need a new kernel with KMS enabled, don't remember if you are already running KMS.
              Last edited by bridgman; 12-22-2009, 12:01 PM.

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              • #47
                Originally posted by barbarbaron View Post
                Let me remind you that r600-r700 opengl 2.0 and GLSL support in radeon driver has been pushed by an AMD employee; Richard Li. With the release of Ubuntu 10.04 or F13 we will all see r600-r700 users playing ET Quake Wars on their computers with good performance while r500 performance will remain GARBAGE.
                This makes it clear that AMD urges us users to upgrade to newer GPUs by supporting whatever feature they see fit. Well I will definitely upgrade to a new GPU as you guys suggest, but an NVIDIA ONE.
                You should try researching/googling before you post, it's refreshing. Alex Deucher (agd5f) has been in AMD's employ for about two years now and he has been working on r500 a lot of that time (and still is). Why should the work on r300g stop?

                Apart from that: Of course AMD urges its users to upgrade. They make money that way, as every business does. Try running nvidias drivers for older hardware these days, it sucks (doesn't work with latest X.org or kernels). Why do you think Nouveau is such an interesting option for many users. Intel developers concentrate on newer hardware too (i815 support is more or less broken, and nice stuff is only coming to i965 or later).

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                • #48
                  What this forum need are rules like those on Doom9.

                  http://forum.doom9.org/forum-rules.htm

                  That way people like barbarbaron will never ruin it for others.

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                  • #49
                    He says this shit because he doesn't have an old nVidia GPU himself. I have here a new Intel notebook, an AMD r600 GPU, a geforce 4 and a geforce 6. My experience so far have been great with Intel GPU. Decent with AMD. GARBAGE with nVidia. By GARBAGE I mean, not even compiz working! And with nVidia you don't have any open-source alternative and no perspective in the future. That's how they respect their customers from 3+ years back.

                    Compared to Intel, AMD came late in the OSS. But don't you dare to compare them to **** nVidia.

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by barbarbaron View Post
                      This makes it clear that AMD urges us users to upgrade to newer GPUs by supporting whatever feature they see fit. Well I will definitely upgrade to a new GPU as you guys suggest, but an NVIDIA ONE.
                      I know exactly how you feel. The other day I bought myself an ATI Rage 128 at the flea market for 1 dollar. Turns out it can't even run Unigine Tropics Demo . I mean it's nice that all this work is going on newer cards, but what about me? I also want to play the latest games with my ATI Rage 128.

                      Does ATI really care about owners of ATI Rage 128 cards? I think not. Next time I will spend my 1 dollar wisely on an NVidia card. That will teach them!

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