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R600 Open-Source Driver WIth GLSL, OpenGL 2.0

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  • I think Q should have paid attention in elementary school when they explained the concept of "sentences".
    (assuming that in his native language there is such a thing).

    Comment


    • Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
      I think Q might have some kind of mental disorder here. He just keeps repeating the same things over and over again like if he says it enough it might become true, while ignoring everything that everyone else says.



      Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
      I think he might be the first person I've ever seen say that DirectX through WINE is better and less hacky than native OpenGL support.
      thats a WOW only statement !
      because WOW really use a windows-only-openGL-extansion Really!
      you can't see the minimap if you play WOW in OpenGLmode in wine.
      but the _DirectX version rund perfect in wine!

      in general native games in openGL are better ;-)

      Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
      And he still hasn't explained how he thinks OpenGL's impending demise is going to destroy the market for workstation cards, after it was explained that those are marketed to DirectX users as well.
      The king himself Lord Bridgman gave me a tiny chance that is the truth.

      the tiny point is there is a real chance that in CAD software gamer-cards run faster in directX than on openGL.

      thats because in the openGL world they have more control they cut out more extensions and then this features need to emulate by the cpu thats slowdown the OpenGl CAD software on a gamer card.

      on the directX side M$ can bypass this and integrate optimizations in the dx-core

      but yes i can not proof this in practice!


      Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
      And then he keeps bringing up 10 year old applications to test performance while ignoring that blackstar was talking about HLSL and other newer technologies being slow.
      blackstar ignors my argument wine is a shader compiler and also can optimase the orginal code on newer hardware.

      you can play a DX8 game (yes DX8 is shader based HLSL) and wine can compile it into a OpenGL4 stylish code. there is no need to do this all the time wine also can save the result in theorie.

      and my argument was simple a recompiled OpenGL stylish code on newest hardware is faster than a DX8 nativ code on the same hardware!

      Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
      As far as OpenGL dying itself, it's been dying in certain markets like PC gaming for years. It's never going to disappear completely though, as long as Sony and Nintendo don't feel like paying massive amounts of money to their main competitor in the console market. And new markets like phones and web browsers seem likely to make OpenGL more used than ever before, even if they are in lower end devices.
      o yes Nintendo's Wii is very old no no no no highendgrafic everywere!

      o yes Playstation 3 is old to no no no no no no highend-graphic nowere!

      OpenGL2.1 grafic! nothing more.

      phones do only have openGL2 to....

      the web browser standarts only have openGL2 to!

      Highend-graphic OpenGL is dieing! over 4 years of DirectX10 there is no openGL3 game!
      Last edited by Qaridarium; 12-30-2009, 03:27 AM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by bridgman View Post
        driver would exact a performance penalty as a result of Wine inserting additional shader instructions. The fact that one program rums faster does not disprove that,
        o yes wine inserting a lot of additional shader instructions o yes very bad..

        thats the theoretical argument why it should be slower.

        But! WOW-directX9-based-shader-game run faster on a lot of hardware (less than 1GB ram) than nativ in windows vista or windows7!

        thats the praxis!

        additional-shader-instructions VS vista1,4gb/windows7-1GB waste of ram

        Originally posted by bridgman View Post
        and the other benchmarks you posted (which prob24ably don't use shaders) also argue that another factor must be affecting performance, possibly filesystem or cacheing.
        yes this programs do not use shaders but! a game do not only use shaders.

        for exampel "surprime comander" RTS game use also a lot of 'CPU' power and this slowdown the FPS but wine Wins all CPU benchmarks...
        wine can win a game benchmark on the CPU used side!
        a game is not a 'shader' program a Game is much more!
        a cpu limited program can run faster on wine than nativ!
        a ram limited program can run faster on wine than nativ!
        many old games also do not run on modern windows systems wine also wins on compatibility.

        wine WIN!



        Originally posted by bridgman View Post
        Hold on, let me check my job description...
        <snip>
        23. Where possible, encourage the suspension of, or take other actions to discourage enthusiastic forum members from posting
        24. Fill out timesheets on a regular basis
        Yep, guess I do get paid for it.
        Seriously, I am trying to discourage you from overgeneralizing and drifting off-topic. Your posts could be regarded a lot more seriously if you would just slow down a bit. Be sensitive to that inner voice which occasionally says "you're babbling" and listen to it
        I'm babbling and i'm listen to that I'm babbling bababba bababb aabba paaplaplaaa
        because babbling is important ! I Sould get paid for it by AMD!

        Comment


        • This must be a bot.

          Would this thread qualify as a failed Turing test ?

          Note : I'm not a native english speaker either, but I try to make sure to have at least partially sound sentence structures. And in fact, it must be even harder for me to parse those sentences than for those that speak english fluently.

          BTW, what is "praxis" ?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
            I'm not sure why you think zlib performance has anything to do with 3d performance...
            thats because there are cpu limitation games like RTS games with many troops KI calculate by the cpu.

            wine can win in this games on the 3D-Performance!

            Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
            As for wine graphics performance, games like Diablo 2, Counterstrike, World of Goo, Plants vs Zombies are almost unplayable on my Atom/945 netbook
            I'm so sorry abaut this.. in the future it will be faster intel only need OpenGL3.2.
            Intel is generally is very slow in 3D a 20 hd4350 is 200-300% faster than your atom GPU...



            Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
            Maybe your system is powerful enough that you don't notice the slowdown or even get a speed increase through wine but that's far from universal.
            thats true i can play Oblivion in wine and I can't notice the difference in speed. wine or the driver only have some graphic bugs.






            Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
            Finally, it's obvious that brigdman is employed by AMD to ban dissenters from Phoronix (and other forums). Tread carefully, AMD is evil like that.
            in the past AMD get foaming rabies by some Posts of me in this forum.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Mickabouille View Post
              This must be a bot.

              Would this thread qualify as a failed Turing test ?

              Note : I'm not a native english speaker either, but I try to make sure to have at least partially sound sentence structures. And in fact, it must be even harder for me to parse those sentences than for those that speak english fluently.

              BTW, what is "praxis" ?
              sorry praxis=practice

              Comment


              • Hello, since this thread is active, and I couldn't find bug report like this, I am posting it here. Using following configuration:
                Linux 2.6.32
                libgl 7.7
                xf86-video-ati 6.12.4
                libdrm 2.4.17

                I have following bugs, apart from inability to turn on KMS
                Using glxgears as benchmark..yes I know it is not really.
                In non compositing environment, when glxgears window origin is moved out of current desktop(left and up coordinates), rendering stops (shows last rendered frame, clipped with the window border of-course) frames go high ~4000 as of my hardware RS780.
                On the other hand, when the glxgears window is under other window, entirely, frames drop down to ~100.
                When simultaneously origin outside desktop and covered by window entirely FPS are ~100 too.

                In compositing environment, when moving window with GL context, window moves (content black), but GL rendering context stays(and continue to render) on the old place, above any windows. When I finish the move, then it moves in to GL window as usual. When the window origin is moved beyond desktop dimensions, window content stays black.

                Please if not appropriate here, tell me where I should post this issues.
                Thanks.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Mickabouille View Post
                  This must be a bot.

                  Would this thread qualify as a failed Turing test ?

                  Note : I'm not a native english speaker either, but I try to make sure to have at least partially sound sentence structures. And in fact, it must be even harder for me to parse those sentences than for those that speak english fluently.

                  BTW, what is "praxis" ?
                  It's actually quite funny when you're a native german speaker.
                  He often slips german words into his sentences, e.g. praxis, tausend, ...

                  Anyway, to move this thread to a slightly less off-topic topic:
                  Has anyone had any luck yet with running a real-world >=OGL2 application (= game, obviously :P) on r300g? I keep trying to run HoN, Nexuiz, the Penny Arcade games and some others but so far without success.
                  It does pass some of the piglit-tests though...
                  I guess it's too early to fill bugreports yet, or isn't it?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                    Originally posted by BlackStar
                    As for wine graphics performance, games like Diablo 2, Counterstrike, World of Goo, Plants vs Zombies are almost unplayable on my Atom/945 netbook
                    I'm so sorry abaut this.. idsn the future it will be faster intel only need OpenGL3.2.
                    Intel is generally is very slow in 3D a 20€ hd4350 is 200-300% faster than your atom GPU...
                    Yes, but you forgot to quote the rest of my sentence, which said that these games are also slower on my Core2/Quadro notebook. This Quadro card supports OpenGL 3.2, so if what you said was true, it should be faster through wine than native. It isn't, however.

                    I don't doubt that wine can give a speed increase in some rare cases, but this speed increase either happens on software that doesn't really need it (WOW is 5 years old now? 3d mark 03 is 6 years old?) or on hardware that doesn't have a problem anyway (e.g. DX10/GL3.2 cards running DX8 software).

                    One final nitpick: WOW minimaps use GL pbuffers, which are *not* windows specific. However, noone sane wants to deal with this ugly 6-year old POS extension, which is why OSS drivers won't get it anytime soon. This is why WOW/DX tends to run better than WOW/GL in wine.

                    in the past AMD get foaming rabies by some Posts of me in this forum.
                    Lol

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                      The king himself Lord Bridgman gave me a tiny chance that is the truth.

                      the tiny point is there is a real chance that in CAD software gamer-cards run faster in directX than on openGL.
                      YOU stated that CAD software ran faster in DX on gamer cards than in GL, and stated it as a fact. I didn't have any information to prove or disprove it so said it was "possible", based on your prior statement. If you don't have any justification for that statement, you can't use my response as justification either.

                      Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                      thats because in the openGL world they have more control they cut out more extensions and then this features need to emulate by the cpu thats slowdown the OpenGl CAD software on a gamer card.

                      on the directX side M$ can bypass this and integrate optimizations in the dx-core
                      One more time, we don't cut out extensions on the gaming drivers. The workload is different between workstation and gamer applications (workstation tends to be much more vertex-intensive, gaming tends to be fragment/pixel-intensive) and we optimize differently for those workloads. More specifically, if an optimization improves the way a workstation application runs but slows down or interferes with a game then there's no way that change could make it into the regular drivers but it *would* go into the workstation drivers.

                      The other appeal of the workstation drivers is that the hardware/software combination is ISV-certified on a range of workstation applications, which is usually not possible for regular drivers.

                      Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                      but yes i can not proof this in practice!
                      With respect, if you can't prove it in theory *or* in practice then you don't have a very strong argument. You really would be better off presenting it as a theory or a possibility, with a chance that someone else might provide additional information, than presenting it as a statement of fact and having people throw feces at you.
                      Last edited by bridgman; 12-30-2009, 10:46 AM.

                      Comment


                      • Keep up the great work, bridgman.
                        Not enough appreciation going on around here.

                        Comment


                        • Thanks, although the appreciation should keep going to the hands-on developers.

                          I'm just here trying to prevent Crimes against Logic

                          Comment


                          • Right, on behalf of the developers *cough*.

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                            • I knew that

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                                YOU stated that CAD software ran faster in DX on gamer cards than in GL, and stated it as a fact. I didn't have any information to prove or disprove it so said it was "possible", based on your prior statement. If you don't have any justification for that statement, you can't use my response as justification either.



                                One more time, we don't cut out extensions on the gaming drivers. The workload is different between workstation and gamer applications (workstation tends to be much more vertex-intensive, gaming tends to be fragment/pixel-intensive) and we optimize differently for those workloads. More specifically, if an optimization improves the way a workstation application runs but slows down or interferes with a game then there's no way that change could make it into the regular drivers but it *would* go into the workstation drivers.

                                The other appeal of the workstation drivers is that the hardware/software combination is ISV-certified on a range of workstation applications, which is usually not possible for regular drivers.



                                With respect, if you can't prove it in theory *or* in practice then you don't have a very strong argument. You really would be better off presenting it as a theory or a possibility, with a chance that someone else might provide additional information, than presenting it as a statement of fact and having people throw feces at you.
                                in the end the windows users use rivatuner to turn a radeon into a fireGL...

                                in the end everyone how buys a FirePRO/FireGL are a idiot!
                                Last edited by Qaridarium; 12-30-2009, 09:03 PM.

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