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R600 Open-Source Driver WIth GLSL, OpenGL 2.0

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  • Originally posted by not.sure View Post
    Mhm ok thanks. Is there a similar list for fglrx?
    AFAIK no. There's the wine appdb, but it doesn't contain a field for the videocard/driver used. Sometimes you can find information in the comments.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
      hey in 'my point of view'

      OpenGL2 means something like DirectX8/9b...

      i think farcry1 is a dirctX9c game.....

      then you need OpenGL2.1+'VTF'+'3-4 wine-openGL3.2 extensions'

      ins short words... no!
      Far Cay doesn't need VTF, as it runs fine on Ati X1xx0 cards. Besides, any new laptop with Ati graphics supports DX10+ (incl. VTF).

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Kano View Post
        Far Cry 1 has got OpenGL and D3D engine.

        r_Driver = "OpenGL"

        You have to force in the config file to use it. Better use google befor you post something wrong
        realy Opengl in wine is not so shiny as in theorie.....
        there are Windows-Only-OpenGL-Extansions!
        exampel: WOW in openGL modus you can't see the mini-map---

        only DirectX modus brings the full game to work!...

        I'm so sorry to you kano but windows games use windows-only-extansions in the OpenGL modus... useless for wine!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
          Far Cay doesn't need VTF, as it runs fine on Ati X1xx0 cards. Besides, any new laptop with Ati graphics supports DX10+ (incl. VTF).
          you don't unterstand.......
          on windows thats work on an X1xxx..YES but....
          only shader3 not VTF.

          but! WINE shows to the programm a nvidia card if wine defect MESA as a renderer....
          nvidia means.. if the Programm contain VTF for nvidia card wine transplate VTF code to openGL.......

          "Besides, any new laptop with Ati graphics supports DX10+ (incl. VTF)."

          Yes i know!

          But...... the OpenSource driver do not support VTF,,,, only openGL2 for amd VTF is openGL3 !

          Comment


          • Originally posted by bridgman View Post
            Possible. Might be true for workstation cards as well. Do you have any examples where the same app is currently supported on both APIs on the same OS (to eliminate differences between OSes and graphics frameworks) ?

            no i do not have a exampel...


            Originally posted by bridgman View Post
            OK, I'll bite. Which extensions do you think are missing from gaming opengl drivers that cause the Blender devs to only use the most basic features ? Isn't it more likely that the use of a minimal OpenGL set is targeted at open source drivers rather than gaming vs workstation drivers ?
            so far i know blender is target to software-renderer-openGL
            you can use blender with a 'vesa' card



            Originally posted by bridgman View Post
            Your reasoning is excellent as always, but you base your conclusions on "facts" which don't seem to have any grounding in reality, or which are based on over-generalization of a single outlier case. It might be worth a bit of time to validate your underlying "facts" first.
            give me 20 000 and i make a studie abaut Cad software on gaming cards on openGL vs DirectX...

            i do not have prove only a bad feeling abaut openGL is dieing.

            only 1 important company plan a big openGL3 game Blizzard next-gen-WOW..

            but direct10 is 4 years old and hase in feeling tausend of games and DX11 is a half year old and have 5+games...

            right now there is no openGL3 game.........

            in the CAD market it shows me the same,..

            Comment


            • I do agree with your bad feeling about OpenGL but I do have "less of a bad feeling" thanks to the changes that appeared in OpenGL 3.2.
              Last edited by bridgman; 12-29-2009, 12:55 AM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                realy Opengl in wine is not so shiny as in theorie.....
                there are Windows-Only-OpenGL-Extansions!
                exampel: WOW in openGL modus you can't see the mini-map---

                only DirectX modus brings the full game to work!...

                I'm so sorry to you kano but windows games use windows-only-extansions in the OpenGL modus... useless for wine!
                That's not fully sure if that's a wine problem. Did you crosscheck if it works with nvidia? Maybe the emulated d3d layer uses a different way to show it. Maybe let somebody test with nvidia hardware and that game, i do not play it.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                  you don't unterstand.......
                  on windows thats work on an X1xxx..YES but....
                  only shader3 not VTF.

                  but! WINE shows to the programm a nvidia card if wine defect MESA as a renderer....
                  nvidia means.. if the Programm contain VTF for nvidia card wine transplate VTF code to openGL.......

                  "Besides, any new laptop with Ati graphics supports DX10+ (incl. VTF)."

                  Yes i know!

                  But...... the OpenSource driver do not support VTF,,,, only openGL2 for amd VTF is openGL3 !
                  Qaridarium, Far Cry does not use Vertex Texture Fetch. Not on nvidia, not on ati, not anywhere.
                  Originally posted by Game Developer Conference
                  Far Cry uses the latest DirectX 9 features

                  - Shader Models 2.x/3.0
                  - - Except for vertex textures and dynamic flow control
                  Source

                  (The reason why it doesn't use VTF and flow control is that both are too slow on nvidia's SM3 hardware and VTF isn't even supported on Ati's SM3 hardware. On the other hand, flow control is actually pretty fast on R500.)

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                    realy Opengl in wine is not so shiny as in theorie.....
                    there are Windows-Only-OpenGL-Extansions!
                    exampel: WOW in openGL modus you can't see the mini-map---

                    only DirectX modus brings the full game to work!...

                    I'm so sorry to you kano but windows games use windows-only-extansions in the OpenGL modus... useless for wine!
                    In case of OpenGL mode WoW renders the map using pbuffers. At this point only the closed source Nvidia and AMD drivers support those. Blizzard should have updated this code a long time ago to use FBOs but they didn't.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Thunderbird View Post
                      In case of OpenGL mode WoW renders the map using pbuffers. At this point only the closed source Nvidia and AMD drivers support those. Blizzard should have updated this code a long time ago to use FBOs but they didn't.
                      i know that.... but the openGL renderer of wow is obsolete...

                      wine can handle the directX9 renderer of WOW nerly perfekt 100%..

                      no one need this buggy pbuffer openGL-windows-only-extansion

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
                        Qaridarium, Far Cry does not use Vertex Texture Fetch. Not on nvidia, not on ati, not anywhere.

                        Source

                        (The reason why it doesn't use VTF and flow control is that both are too slow on nvidia's SM3 hardware and VTF isn't even supported on Ati's SM3 hardware. On the other hand, flow control is actually pretty fast on R500.)
                        ok but.... you don't get the Point!

                        the Point is!... emulate all DX9-shader3 in GSGL is very very very slow!

                        only openGL3.2 speed them up!

                        you need to port all needed openGL3.2 exstansions to X1xxx card and mesa...

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Kano View Post
                          That's not fully sure if that's a wine problem. Did you crosscheck if it works with nvidia? Maybe the emulated d3d layer uses a different way to show it. Maybe let somebody test with nvidia hardware and that game, i do not play it.
                          the problem is obsolet after wine can handle 100% of the directX9 wow code..

                          it was just an single-point argument again your post...

                          not so important realy.... the next WOW will ne OpenGL only based on openGL3.2

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                            I do agree with your bad feeling about OpenGL but I do have "less of a bad feeling" thanks to the changes that appeared in OpenGL 3.2.
                            yes OpenGL3.2 is a good move forward.

                            now you can use windows directX CAD software on wine/linux ;-)

                            in my personal hope this will make Quatro/fireGL Die Faster ;-)

                            Comment


                            • Qaridarium, I really don't understand what your point is. It is obvious that emulating HLSL shaders via GLSL is always going to take more resources than the real thing. In some cases, the difference may be small enough to not matter. In others, you are going to need to upgrade your hardware before you can get decent performance. Finally, there may be some cases that you cannot emulate correctly no matter how hard you try (it's impossible to emulate geometry shaders without EXT_geometry_shader; it's impossible to emulate hull/tesselation shaders in OpenGL right now).

                              Why are you acting so surprised at this? If you want native performance, play a native game. If you want to emulate a game, you need to be aware that you'll get lower performance and compatibility.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
                                Qaridarium, I really don't understand what your point is. It is obvious that emulating HLSL shaders via GLSL is always going to take more resources than the real thing.
                                thats wrong! wine wins tons of benchmarks!
                                wine win on 3Dmark2000 and 3Dmark2001!!!

                                wine +openGL3.2 can also win in old directX8 and dx9 benchmarks!
                                thats because openGL3+ is faster than directX8/9...

                                you have a wrong unterstanding abaut the HLSL to GLSL bridge
                                there is no need to translate it all the time!

                                only the game starts slower!

                                after that the complete translatet GSGL code load in the card and run nonstop.
                                in theorie there is no speed 'lose' but you can also doe optimations...
                                you can handle DX8 code in DX10/DX11 style...

                                a modern GPU hd5870 is faster in a real dx11/Ogl3.2 code than in a DX8 code!
                                thats because the ram speed limitis and DX8 do not use DX11 Texture Compression.





                                Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
                                In others, you are going to need to upgrade your hardware before you can get decent performance.
                                thats only true because your hardware always needs more extansions than the orginal software needs...

                                a DX9 based game runs well on a X1950.. but the same game loses in wine on this card...
                                but a much slower card like the 4350 or 54xx can "Win"
                                thats because wine translate the old code into a new openGL3.2 stylish code...

                                much better texture compression save ramspeed and bring more fps!

                                Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
                                Finally, there may be some cases that you cannot emulate correctly no matter how hard you try (it's impossible to emulate geometry shaders without EXT_geometry_shader; it's impossible to emulate hull/tesselation shaders in OpenGL right now).
                                what da fu.k?????

                                "EXT_geometry_shader" is a nvidia only extansion but OpenGL3.2 do not need this for the same because in ogl3.2 there is a geometry_shader !

                                you also can emulate a 'tesselation shader' thats because of the amd-OGL extansions! ...

                                yes there are some dx11 features left in openGL3.2,,,,,, but OpenGL4 comes in the future be sure.




                                Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
                                Why are you acting so surprised at this? If you want native performance, play a native game. If you want to emulate a game, you need to be aware that you'll get lower performance and compatibility.
                                you do not get the Point of wine...... wine isn't a emulator.-..

                                there is no emulator!......

                                wine also does not emulate shader HLSL code... wine is a compiler!
                                wine is a shader compiler compiles old shader in newstylish shader
                                compile HLSL shader into GLSL shader....

                                there is no emulator! nativ hardware speed! NO emulator!

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