Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

R600 Open-Source Driver WIth GLSL, OpenGL 2.0

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Kano View Post
    Why is it Nvidia's fault when no other vendor has got a complete opengl stack or the needed extensions to support some wine features? Nobody holds ATI or somebody else back to implement the same extensions. I think you completely reverse the current driver state. What you suggest is to buy hardware that will work maybe in the future correctly, that's absolutely stupid from a practical point of view. Also it is very unlikely that the gfx market is changed even when all Linux gamers/hd movie watchers would buy Nvidia hardware as the market share is really low compared to Windows - this is unlikely to change soon. You do not support ATI by choosing such a product, you increase just your own disappointment over those drivers. It is just much more likely that you will more oven boot Windows than you would with Nv hardware just because of the missing features. Most oss ati driver fans boot Win to play games, is that better then?

    "practical point of view." : drop linux use windows7 ?

    "practical point of view," use blueray and play windows games so is so much easyer on windows....

    "practical point of view." drop openGL and only use directX because its so much easyer only support 1 graphic-technique

    "practical point of view." : Buy Intel cpu's because to have more than 1 company is to much Complicate.

    "practical point of view." drop computers generally play with real womans are so much better!

    "practical point of view." to have practice do not mean have success you can have real practice in sexual with a woman but become aids after that is not an success!

    Windows=cloused source
    Linux=opensource

    nvidia=cloused source
    amd/ati=Opensource

    cloused source=cloused source
    nvidia=windows

    opensource=Opensource
    ati/amd=Linux

    Opensource= success
    Clousedsource=AIDS (means FAIL)

    Nidia=AIDS cloused source is like become AIDS by practice sex!

    Comment


    • You never use Win for games, do you?

      Comment


      • @Quaridarium:

        Seems to me too that you understand it wrong about AMD's opengl stance. I had a look at this page and it made me convinced that AMD/ATI is the enemy of opengl instead of nVidia:

        http://unigine.com/download/

        From that page:


        Unigine heaven known issues:

        [ATI] Alpha-testing is wrong in OpenGL
        [ATI] Depth of field works incorrectly in OpenGL
        [NVIDIA] Low color precision on 7xxx series (I'm not sure if its normal for 7 series)

        Unigine Tropics known issues:

        [ATI] Broken HDR with OpenGL on X1xxx series
        [ATI] No water with OpenGL

        Unigine Sanctuary known issues:

        [ATI] Broken alpha-testing on OpenGL with enabled HDR
        [ATI] Unable to use HDR + antialiasing on OpenGL
        [ATI] Broken stereo 3D mode under MS Windows (?)
        So AMD's bad opengl support is known. Thats why Id software plans for nVidia in their games. Its not surprising that AMD hardware (hd5xxx series) is the first one to have DirectX11 support. With generous help from microsoft of course .

        And for the future of opengl I think it's far from dying. I've been in web development for 4 years now I can say the future of web is 3d and vectoral 2d (thats why I consider switching to GL programming). And every major GFX acceleration done on the web depends on opengl (webGL, flash) because you simply can't make a web page platform dependent.
        DirectX is only for games and some proprietary media content and I've to admit that its quite a good API as my eyes and experience tell me but its simply stuck in games. You can use opengl in your Iphone to your workstation in your lab. It has much wider usage in industry (CAD/CAM, health etc.)
        Last edited by barbarbaron; 12-26-2009, 07:55 AM.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Kano View Post
          You never use Win for games, do you?
          long time ago.. on my pc right now there is no windows...

          Comment


          • Originally posted by barbarbaron View Post
            @Quaridarium:

            Seems to me too that you understand it wrong about AMD's opengl stance. I had a look at this page and it made me convinced that AMD/ATI is the enemy of opengl instead of nVidia:

            http://unigine.com/download/

            From that page:




            So AMD's bad opengl support is known. Thats why Id software plans for nVidia in their games. Its not surprising that AMD hardware (hd5xxx series) is the first one to have DirectX11 support. With generous help from microsoft of course .

            And for the future of opengl I think it's far from dying. I've been in web development for 4 years now I can say the future of web is 3d and vectoral 2d (thats why I consider switching to GL programming). And every major GFX acceleration done on the web depends on opengl (webGL, flash) because you simply can't make a web page platform dependent.
            DirectX is only for games and some proprietary media content and I've to admit that its quite a good API as my eyes and experience tell me but its simply stuck in games. You can use opengl in your Iphone to your workstation in your lab. It has much wider usage in industry (CAD/CAM, health etc.)


            Unigine Tropics known issues:
            "[ATI] No water with OpenGL"

            i think this bug is old because i test this right now on catalyst 9.12 and i have water!!!!!
            not a bug anymore---
            if you want i can make a screen-shot!

            Unigine Tropics known issues:
            "[ATI] Broken HDR with OpenGL on X1xxx series"

            X1xxx is dropet on the fglrx side doped means thats not a bug its just droped.


            Unigine Sanctuary known issues:
            [ATI] Broken alpha-testing on OpenGL with enabled HDR

            i start the test enable hdr and??? i can't see the bug sorry.

            Unigine Sanctuary known issues:
            [ATI] Unable to use HDR + antialiasing on OpenGL

            ok this does not work....

            [ATI] Broken stereo 3D mode under MS Windows (?)

            stereo is broken on linux to!




            Unigine heaven known issues:
            [ATI] Alpha-testing is wrong in OpenGL
            [ATI] Depth of field works incorrectly in OpenGL

            sorry i can't test this right now because there is no linux version to download..



            "So AMD's bad opengl support is known"

            support means.. if you find a bug they fix it!.. (in the future)

            the games use nvidia-only-extansions amd can't fix that!

            its not 'support' if amd breaks the law and stole nvidia-only-extansions...


            "And for the future of opengl I think it's far from dying."

            you are wrong.. there are Tons of DirectX10 games but no one with OpenGL3!

            "It has much wider usage in industry (CAD/CAM, etc.)"

            the openGL cad/cam industrie is dieing! only old software based on openGL..

            the most of new cad software based on directX! because on openGL you need fireGL/Quatro grafik cards and if you use a DirectX based one you can get the cheapest one ever... DirectX-based-cad software wins on the "price"

            on the DirectX side 100€ for windows 300€ for a HD5850 means on the openGL side 0€ for linux 1500€ for an outdatet 4890 based FireGL card...

            and the 5850 is faster to....

            Comment


            • Hmm nothing more I can say... what does qaridarium mean by the way?

              I got tropics demo running here with well... 34 fps
              I guess the new 9800gt will further sh** to its pants in unigine heaven when it comes out
              I think the performance will be much better with ET Quake Wars though. Till then take care.

              Comment


              • FireGL cards do not work better with Linux for normal apps. The only thing different is that there are features enabled in the opengl stack then such a card is identified which is disabled for standard cards. Then apps like specviewperf run faster. So it is hard to believe that supporting standard cards was really hard to do - the chips have been always the same. Crossplattform apps like Maya will most likely never use D3D.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Kano View Post
                  Most oss ati driver fans boot Win to play games, is that better then?
                  I think I''m qualified to answer that. I used nVidia's blob and I *still* dual booted to Windows for games. Even with their support and WINE doing as best they can, it's still troublesome for many, many games which has nothing to do with the graphbics card at all.

                  I did buy a HD 5850 for my "Wintendo" and to develop the OSS drivers on, because I hope to improve them. I bought AMD because they open sourced the specs, that's money in their pocket. Eventually I think I can move games from Windows to OSS-backed WINE, that's my gain. I don't need it to be a win-win for everyone, just for myself......

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by barbarbaron View Post
                    Hmm nothing more I can say... what does qaridarium mean by the way?

                    I got tropics demo running here with well... 34 fps

                    i test it to:

                    there is Water! ;-) 'no bug' shows to me!



                    Originally posted by barbarbaron View Post
                    I guess the new 9800gt will further sh** to its pants in unigine heaven when it comes out
                    heaven need a DX11 (amd)card for fullfeatured ......

                    Originally posted by barbarbaron View Post
                    I think the performance will be much better with ET Quake Wars though. Till then take care.
                    realy? how care abaut that i always have 60+fps

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Kano View Post
                      FireGL cards do not work better with Linux for normal apps. The only thing different is that there are features enabled in the opengl stack then such a card is identified which is disabled for standard cards. Then apps like specviewperf run faster. So it is hard to believe that supporting standard cards was really hard to do - the chips have been always the same. Crossplattform apps like Maya will most likely never use D3D.
                      if you have a company... and you need 10 workstations...
                      for exampel drop macos and drop linux brings you a hole money!

                      10*(300(card)+100€(windows)) =4000€
                      faster 5850/5870......

                      for the same speed you need 2 pices of 4870 based fireGL cards...
                      10*2*1500€ (linux here macos is much more expensiv)

                      30000€

                      drop Crossplattform apps brings the company 30000-4000=26000€!!!!
                      and!,,, the DXD based CAD software is cheaper to!

                      for an exampel http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/MicroStation

                      unix cad software moves to directX because of the cheaper hardware and saving money for the companies!

                      second exampel:

                      http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/AutoCAD

                      "AutoCAD unterstützt seit Release 14 nur Microsoft Windows als Betriebssystem."

                      thats mean 'autocad 14' only support windows ....... because openGL is dropet!
                      Last edited by Qaridarium; 12-27-2009, 12:56 AM.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                        if you have a company... and you need 10 workstations...
                        for exampel drop macos and drop linux brings you a hole money!

                        10*(300(card)+100€(windows)) =4000€
                        faster 5850/5870......

                        for the same speed you need 2 pices of 4870 based fireGL cards...
                        10*2*1500€ (linux here macos is much more expensiv)

                        30000€

                        drop Crossplattform apps brings the company 30000-4000=26000€!!!!
                        and!,,, the DXD based CAD software is cheaper to!

                        for an exampel http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/MicroStation

                        unix cad software moves to directX because of the cheaper hardware and saving money for the companies!

                        second exampel:

                        http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/AutoCAD

                        "AutoCAD unterstützt seit Release 14 nur Microsoft Windows als Betriebssystem."

                        thats mean 'autocad 14' only support windows ....... because openGL is dropet!
                        I wish you knew what you talked about.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by barkas View Post
                          I wish you knew what you talked about.
                          I wish I was able to understand a word he says.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Vash63 View Post
                            I wish I was able to understand a word he says.
                            ok practice we bild a directX-workstation and a Professional OpenGL one!

                            have a look!

                            the directX one:

                            http://geizhals.at/a465649.html ASUS , Radeon HD 5870 339€
                            http://geizhals.at/a458478.html Windows 7 Professional 64Bit 115,97€
                            http://geizhals.at/a420753.html Autodesk: AutoCAD LT 2010 1139,13€

                            OpenGL one
                            http://geizhals.at/a386534.html ATI FirePro 3D V8700 736,10
                            http://geizhals.at/a386534.html ATI FirePro 3D V8700 736,10
                            (you need 2 of them for the same "shader" speed)
                            Catia V6 2009 6000€ und up+++


                            directX workstation: 1594€
                            OpenGL workstation: 7475€


                            you save 5878€ per workstation if you drop openGL.....

                            OpenGL RIP on the CAD market. . .

                            Comment


                            • Sorry Q, but I don't understand your point either.

                              Why are you specifying workstation cards for OpenGL but not for DirectX ? In both cases you either need the workstation optimizations (for best performance with huge models) or you don't... and if you *don't* need the optimizations etc... then you might as well use a consumer card for OpenGL as well.

                              AutoCAD has been Windows-only for fifteen years; we're not really talking about a current trend there.

                              EDIT - how did we end up having this discussion in the Open Source 6xx/7xx GLSL thread ?
                              Last edited by bridgman; 12-28-2009, 12:08 AM.

                              Comment


                              • Yeah, AMD markets those expensive FirePro cards for both Windows/DirectX and Linux/OpenGL users. The 5870 works equally well under both API's as well. You get the same thing if you look at Nvidia's lineup of gamer vs professional cards.

                                Is this the heart of your argument about how AMD is trying to kill OpenGL? Cuz i never understood where that was coming from.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X