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So who are these douches that took down the nvnews site?

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  • #61
    Originally posted by asdx
    Fuck you nvidia.

    Either provide specifications to the nouveau developers or GTFO.

    Nobody in his right mind wants your piece of shit and broken blob.

    Michael, you seriously need to ban asdx!

    being a dick to developers whom are trying to communicate with users in the phoronix forums should be deeply frowned upon!

    asdx, doesn't have respect for anyone in these forums and is only here to cause trouble.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by asdx
      Douches like yourself who say they love "open source" but then support something shitty like the nvidia blob, something that causes developers a lot of grief.

      You guys are the open source hypocrites of the Linux community.
      But I've never claimed I'm an open-source-at-all-costs guy. I generally want to use what works the best and in some areas, for me, OSS is more important than in other areas. Drivers is one of those areas where I have no problem accepting binary versions from manufacturers.

      When I bought my video card I knew the deal... and I made my purchase because I felt it was worth it.

      And us software devs do not require open-source drivers to get our jobs done "without grief". That is such a whiny excuse. I'm not saying that working with a black box is always the most pleasant; depends on the APIs and documentation and the ability to communicate with the providers.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by asdx
        You don't have respect for the nouveau devs also, you called nouveau a "garbage".

        And no, I don't respect the nvidia people, they are not worth of any respect. All they cause is grief to the Linux developers. I hope nvidia burns in fucking hell.
        we've been over this in the other thread; there happens to be a difference between saying nouveau is garbage (which i didn't say) vs. nouveau is garbage compared to the nvidia blob (which is exactly what i said). asdx, you are being VERY dishonest and if you think i am not going to point out your deceit - you would be wrong.

        if you don't like nvidia, fine. Then don't purchase their products, but stop wasting everyone else' time by attacking developers and users who visit these forums. You seem to be under the impression that your opinion is all that matters, where i am sure most people can read your comments and come to the conclusion (fairly easily) that you and your opinions are a waste of space.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by asdx
          They are not, I am free to express my dissatisfaction with nvidia and so I will, if you don't like it, feel free to ignore it.
          so your dissatisfaction with nvidia includes telling other users to go and die in fire? ~ while also telling almost everyone to fuck off at the end of every post??? weird. Typically, the way i would go about letting a company know that i am unhappy with their product would be to contact them directly and/or (in the case of computers) contact the OEM (in the case of a laptop or something).

          Originally posted by asdx
          And yes, my next card will be from Intel and AMD, I'm not giving my hard earned money to Nvidia, EVER again, because they don't support Linux the way I want to see them supporting it.
          good for you, then don't buy nvidia. no one is forcing you to

          Originally posted by asdx
          And their excuses for not providing specifications are lame. What? Intel and AMD are not losing money by supporting Linux and open source.

          Please just go away nvidia. You have failed the entire Linux community.

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYWzMvlj2RQ
          they may not provide specs - but their driver is still the best GFX driver for linux, it slaughters Intel and i've always found AMD to be a mixed bag. ...and by the way - you do realize the vast majority of phoronix readers have already seen that video right?

          and who are you to claim they have failed the entire linux community - they happen to be the only GFX manufacturer that HASN'T disappointed me. please, stop speaking for others - you are NOT representative of all Linux users, not even close...

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by asdx
            Then please use another word, like "inferior with 3D performance" (which is to be expected from a fully RE'd driver), but using the word "garbage" is very harsh considering that nouveau is a project that is being created by individual people like us, without any documentation or support from Nvidia even.
            in comparison it is junk, it doesn't support even half of what the blob offers and for many things is unusable... you may find that harsh but oh well. I wouldn't expect a couple of developers to be able to create a better driver than nvidia, even if they had the spec/documentation. as someone else already pointed out - that sure hasn't made a huge difference for radeon, either.

            Originally posted by asdx
            You know nouveau is made from 100% RE'd code right? I don't know about you but I admire those developers, their work and talent on nouveau is more than impressive to me.

            I think nouveau deserves huge respect and our support for their effort, even when the 3D performance might not be on par with the closed source driver (blob).
            I admire them for their skills and talent, but that doesn't mean i have to prefer/use Nouveau over the Nvidia driver, especially when it is a very poor driver even when comparing it to radeon/intel OSS drivers. When i purchased Nvidia hardware, i knew what i was buying and that i wasn't buying these cards to use Nouveau - that would be a waste of my hard earned money :\ I've done all that i can to support their efforts, but at the end of the day - i am not sacrificing my computing experience (and requirements) to support their efforts. to say 3d performance 'might not be on par' is a HUGE understatement.

            ...and where exactly does 'respect' entail going on tangents in the phoronix forums telling any and all nvidia (blob) users to fuck off or kill themselves, exactly? where does this respect tell you to be a rude twat towards a Linux nvidia developer whom was trying to let linux nvidia users in the phoronix forums about some changes that are happening???

            all you are doing is being disruptive and an asshole.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by asdx
              I see you won't give up with the insults. Ok, how about this? Nouveau performs a lot better with compositors than your blob. All nouveau needs to catch up is better performance with 3D and power management.
              Nouveau doesn't perform better on any of my machines with compositors, here is something fun for you to try - run compiz (kwin or GS) with all of the bells and whistles (this would mostly apply to kwin and compiz), launch a few instances of GL-type apps, videos, hardware accelerated VMs, maybe a few compilations and start moving around all of these windows - we'll see just how much 'smoother' nouveau is. lol. it doesn't cut it. So if you are saying, Nouveau is smoother with compositors, right up until you are actually using real-world usage, ie: running applications - than what does it matter? i don't sit in front of any of my machines to ooo and awww over compositors, I use applications, sometimes i have 8 busy workspaces, with many running applications and VMs.

              Originally posted by asdx
              Let's not talk about junk because nouveau isn't, nouveau fits a lot better into the kernel, it uses existing Linux components: Gallium3D, KMS, GEM, etc. That's why it can work so well with Wayland or X. It uses the existing Linux code and it's modular, unlike the blob.

              The blob is actually the junk here, it uses only X and taints the Linux kernel, it also has a lot of Windows code inside of it, perhaps that's why it's so slow with compositors and 2D.
              you still don't get it. I....AM....NOT...SAYING....NOUVEAU...IS....JUNK. it is only junk in *comparison* to the blob. it is inferior. I agree nouveau fits better into the kernel - do you not remember me saying i thought nvidia should utilize nouveau for in-kernel, like a dev suggested. But all of the rest that you mention are fine and dandy, except for one detail the binary driver shreds all of the drivers using those interfaces, substantially - it is performant, supports OpenGL4.x, CUDA/OpenCL, etc. but regardless of all of this - for those who require being able to utilize the GPU and use it how it was designed - Nouveau will not under any circumstance, deliver - so it doesn't matter at this point how integrated or modular Nouveau is - and this goes back to some of my earlier posts about being pragmatic and realistic about this stuff.

              Originally posted by asdx
              Fine, but I still think you are judging nouveau for the wrong reasons, nouveau is not poor, far from it.
              You can think whatever you like. Nouveau doesn't cut it on my desktop, is missing a lot of features and while i think for some people it would work fine (people who don't require much GFX), it does not for people who actually use the GPUs - whether that is 3d/heavy GL apps or GPU computing...

              Originally posted by asdx
              I've already apologized for all that, and again, if I've insulted others, it was because they insulted me first for expressing my ideas on the matter, and because they insulted others also, so respect others to be respected.
              sounds like an excuse to me.

              Originally posted by asdx
              So are you.
              More correctly, I am a dick (and can screw assholes; Team america reference..lol). ie: aside from general topics being discussed, i only really start digging into someone when i have watched them be disrespectful/asshole repeatedly and eventually get sick of listening/seeing their crap.

              As for being disruptive; While I do think this conversation has gone on too long and is disruptive ~ if it gets you to stop being harsh towards others and maybe think a little before you speak / rather than just getting you banned - than it wasn't a waste of time and thus maybe not that bad of a disruption if it improves things.

              the fact, you have already apologized several times for your actions tells me, it's not all in vein.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by asdx
                I do all that every day with nouveau, it works just fine, and I don't experience any slow downs. I run archlinux x86_64 and I use KDE 4.8.4 with kwin (desktop effects are enabled), I watch movies in 720p and 1080p without any problems (VLC and mplayer), I run VMs, I build/compile stuff, etc. Sometimes I play Xonotic, Doom 3, etc. I resume/suspend/hibernate my computer just fine. Again, zero problems.
                Are your VMs H/W accelerated? are your videos for that matter? ..and you obviously can't really take advantage of things like OpenCL/CUDA, either. Do you have a multiple monitor setup (i have 3), how well does it work while doing all of this stuff?

                Originally posted by asdx
                I don't think it's "junk" compared to the blob, I agree that it could be better with things like 3D acceleration, but I think nouveau is better than the blob in other areas, KMS for example, or the fact that it's deeply integrated with the kernel, and so on. So let's just agree to disagree with the things we disagree with.
                I'll agree to disagree. plus, i've already sort of covered this in that other thread. and again, i don't dispute certain advantages Nouveau may have - it really comes down to the more fundemental things it is missing, that i think are problematic - some of which you list below;

                Originally posted by asdx
                Not really an excuse. I apologize if I called people "hypocrite", I don't think you guys are that, and I'm sure that if nouveau had better support for the things you like to do (i.e. 3D, power management, etc) you'll probably be using it. Hopefully it'll get there one day. I retract from what I've said.

                I'm just frustrated that nvidia won't help nouveau and I wish the open source drivers were as fast as the blob for 3D, so users could have a better "out of the box" experience when trying out Linux, etc.

                I'm also frustrated over the patent fiasco in Mesa and S3TC.
                these are issues i don't experience with nvidia at all. it rocks, and i am almost always running the beta drivers (patched for RT, as well).

                Originally posted by asdx
                It's also quite frustrating to read comments of users saying "Wayland should DIAF" when Wayland is just trying to remove the X cruft, which is nothing bad IMHO.

                I wish we would embrace progress more openly, that's all.
                Well, i am actually looking forward to Wayland, i don't know why people would have issue with it. But i also like Xorg (even with some of it's issues, it is very powerful/useful).

                cheerz

                Comment


                • #68
                  @ninez: do not feed...

                  @asdx: keep it going dude

                  Originally posted by Plagman View Post
                  Hello,

                  We're very sorry for the inconvenience that this is causing. We're currently working on putting up our own UNIX support forums and retrieving the data from the now-disabled NvNews UNIX forums. As you know, we're also currently having forum issues of our own so the timing is a little unfortunate, but we hope to be able to provide a new set of official support forums soon.

                  In the meantime and until this is resolved, please send your feedback and bug reports to linux-bugs@nvidia.com. I will update this topic as soon as there is news.

                  Again, sorry for the inconvenience. We really value your participation and I hope to see you on the new forums as soon as they're up.

                  Thanks,
                  - Pierre-Loup Griffais
                  NVIDIA Linux Graphics
                  10q for answering my PM, glad you are at least doing the right thing now by having a proper nVidia owned forum.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by ninez View Post
                    Well, i am actually looking forward to Wayland, i don't know why people would have issue with it. But i also like Xorg (even with some of it's issues, it is very powerful/useful).
                    This is the problem with your entire argument and proof you don't really understand the issues at hand.

                    Wayland requires KMS. If nvidia's support for KMS is anything like their support of xrandr12, good luck getting it in the next decade.

                    Wayland can never be the default in major distributions until nvidia cards are supported, and it will be Nouveau that supports it first. It would be really nice if nvidia would coroporate with Nouveau so that linux can have excellent open source drivers for nvidia cards, but unfortunately that's not the case. If I were you, I'd stop patting Nvidia on the back, and get on the Nouveau train. At some point Wayland will probably be the default and you'll be stuck with X, or Nouveau drivers that aren't as good as they could have been.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Hasn't the nvidia driver had KMS for the past million years?

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by xvalentinex View Post
                        Wayland requires KMS.
                        No it doesn't. Nice irony.

                        Originally posted by johnc View Post
                        Hasn't the nvidia driver had KMS for the past million years?
                        When people say "KMS" they mean what the open-source drivers are using. Nvidia doesn't use that. But they do have their own implementation of kernel modesetting, and have had it since forever.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by xvalentinex View Post
                          This is the problem with your entire argument and proof you don't really understand the issues at hand.

                          Wayland requires KMS. If nvidia's support for KMS is anything like their support of xrandr12, good luck getting it in the next decade.
                          erm, excuse me but i have been using linux for over a decade using (mostly) Nvidia hardware (with the odd ATI/AMD one). if you think that i don't understand what the requirements and issues are with Wayland + nvidia, you would be DEAD wrong :\ If you think i haven't seen how things have played out over the last decade with linux - you would also be wrong. all that you have 'proven' is that you make grand assumptions, based on little information / your own assumptions.... My comments/opinions still stand (based on what i do know and my own experiences).

                          xrandr12 support did take a long time, but to then assume based on that alone that nvidia won't support Wayland for more than a decade - is nothing more than your opinion and also very likely FUD.

                          Originally posted by xvalentinex View Post
                          Wayland can never be the default in major distributions until nvidia cards are supported, and it will be Nouveau that supports it first. It would be really nice if nvidia would coroporate with Nouveau so that linux can have excellent open source drivers for nvidia cards, but unfortunately that's not the case. If I were you, I'd stop patting Nvidia on the back, and get on the Nouveau train. At some point Wayland will probably be the default and you'll be stuck with X, or Nouveau drivers that aren't as good as they could have been.
                          if i were you, i would mind your own fucking business. ie: i can run whatever i want on my hardware, and do NOT need your input or approval thank you very much...! Nouveau isn't suitable for my purposes, if it was - i would use it. So there is no question as to whether or not i should jump on the Nouveau train - because if i did that right now - i might as well uninstall Linux and not use linux at all. :\ - the same is true of any OSS GFX driver (for me) at this point.

                          again with this FUD. For one, you have no idea as to when Nvidia plans on supporting Wayland, you also have no idea of when Wayland will even be production ready, nor do you know whether or not i will be 'stuck with X' or even if that bothers me (which AFAIK it wouldn't, at this point). I am very unlikely to be an early Wayland adopter, regardless of whether i am using Nvidia or not. I will wait until it matures, just like i won't update my Mac to Mountain Lion 10.8, until there have been several point releases.

                          how about instead of preaching to me, trying to spread FUD and seemingly trying to use that FUD as a form of coercion, instead concern yourself with your own problems, k?

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by johnc View Post
                            Hasn't the nvidia driver had KMS for the past million years?
                            I meant the linux kernel implementation of KMS
                            Originally posted by Gusar
                            No it doesn't. Nice irony.
                            Fair enough, but one could argue that to get any real benefit from Wayland you would need run their Weston compositor under KMS.
                            Originally posted by ninez
                            erm, excuse me but i have been using linux for over a decade using (mostly) Nvidia hardware
                            ditto
                            Originally posted by ninez
                            xrandr12 support did take a long time, but to then assume based on that alone that nvidia won't support Wayland for more than a decade
                            This is true, and I shouldn't have stated it as a fact. I have nothing to show that nvidia will support Wayland in any timely manner... better?
                            Originally posted by ninez
                            Nouveau isn't suitable for my purposes, if it was - i would use it.
                            I didn't mean to imply that you should be running Nouveau, that is entirely your decision. I currently run the nvidia blob myself, because Nouveau doesn't resume from suspend on my laptop. I meant more that we all should be supporting/encouraging the herculean efforts of the Nouveau team.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              nvnews linux forum is up.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by xvalentinex View Post
                                This is true, and I shouldn't have stated it as a fact. I have nothing to show that nvidia will support Wayland in any timely manner... better?
                                1st. You did more than that, you not only claimed it as factual, but then were spreading FUD and using that FUD as a form of coercion. ~ how very dishonest of you. :\ 2nd. You're right, we don't know when nvidia will support Wayland, but from what i have heard some developers say - it probably will be fairly trivial for them to do, when they do decide to support it. So how you then draw the conclusions that you do is beyond me?!

                                Originally posted by xvalentinex View Post
                                I didn't mean to imply that you should be running Nouveau, that is entirely your decision. I currently run the nvidia blob myself, because Nouveau doesn't resume from suspend on my laptop. I meant more that we all should be supporting/encouraging the herculean efforts of the Nouveau team.
                                Well, i have supported Nouveau by running RENouveau when i owned a card that wasn't yet supported. But i am not a GFX-driver programmer, and since Nouveau is missing too many features and has really bad performance compared to the blob - i don't/won't use it. ..and if you just meant we should all be supporting Nouveau - why try to spread FUD? - did you actually think that would help the cause? ...telling me i will be stuck with X or the shotty Nouveau driver - did you think that was going to get any response but some hostility???

                                I also don't see what support/encouragement i am supposed to be giving to a project that i don't use (well, every couple/few months i test out nouveau, that's about it). I have nothing to offer that project and the only thing i could do to encourage them is outright lie to them about Nouveau.

                                I think given the circumstances the Nouveau developers have done a decent job, but the sad truth is Nouveau doesn't touch Radeon or Intel (let alone the driver it seeks to replace, which kills radeon/intel in performance) and progress is slow... I would rather be honest in my position - which is that i prefer Nvidia's driver, even with the problems that sometimes crop up with the blob (slow to adopt certain things, the odd security flaw, etc) - at the end of the day, as far as GFX on linux - Nvidia offers decent drivers (the best, imo), that are performant and i am never stuck waiting for them to support the latest version of Xorg, which is good being as i generally stick with bleeding-dege software.

                                I'm not a FOSS-evangelist and i use the best tools for the job - I am not required to hold Nouveau developers hands (whom i highly doubt need me too, either). There may come a day when Nouveau is good enough for me, but until then i am happy using the drivers Nvidia provides - which have made my Linux Desktop very nice to use and work with.

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