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  • #31
    Originally posted by caligula View Post
    For example if Mir supports closed source drivers better, companies will like it more and at least on ARM all GPU work is closed so it's clear Wayland has trouble on ARM and Mir doesn't.
    And why would that be clear? Mir has no magic closed source driver support, it uses the same system which can be used for wayland: libhybris.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by caligula View Post
      What matters is the financial backing behind project. People may not like Mir or Canonical but if they keep pushing it with financial support for years, it will eliminate the need for Wayland. If Wayland does something better, with enough effort Mir can adopt that and become better in the end. It's just a matter of manpower and industrial co-operation. For example if Mir supports closed source drivers better, companies will like it more and at least on ARM all GPU work is closed so it's clear Wayland has trouble on ARM and Mir doesn't.
      Yeah, if only companies like Intel, red hat, collabora and Jolla contributed to Wayland...
      How is Mir better supported on closed drivers? They showed a demo awhile back but that was run with surfacflinger. Both Wayland and Mir require new gles extensions in order to work.
      That said, Jolla has already deployed a Wayland compositor.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by liam View Post
        Yeah, if only companies like Intel, red hat, collabora and Jolla contributed to Wayland...
        How is Mir better supported on closed drivers? They showed a demo awhile back but that was run with surfacflinger. Both Wayland and Mir require new gles extensions in order to work.
        That said, Jolla has already deployed a Wayland compositor.
        Mir is running on ubuntu touch for awhile now, im running Xmir as default on 14.04 is running smoth...

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        • #34
          Originally posted by marciocr View Post
          The cases are totally different.

          The "Mir haters" must understand that Wayland isn't a display server.
          mir haters understand it better than canonical fanbois
          they hate moronic decision to develop proprietary protocol

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          • #35
            Originally posted by TheSoulz View Post
            Mir is running on ubuntu touch for awhile now, im running Xmir as default on 14.04 is running smoth...
            stupid kid must know that by using xmir he uses x11, not mir, and that xmir is basically renamed xwayland.
            i.e. dumb moron uses x11 via software, developed by wayland developers and masturbates on canonical

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            • #36
              Originally posted by TheOne View Post
              Basically wayland is vaporware that needs to be implemented by each desktop environment while Mir when finished will be a display server which is ready to use without having to go to all the trouble of writing an entire protocol implementation from scratch.
              Wayland is being deployed on mobile devices right now, the desktop implementation of GNOME can be used in Fedora 20 right now, while Mir is constantly getting pushed back more and more... which is the vaporware, again?

              Btw, I held a Wayland phone (Sailfish) in my hand a couple of days ago, gotta say it was impressive... extremely responsive, smooth and visually stunning!

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              • #37
                Originally posted by dee. View Post
                Wayland is being deployed on mobile devices right now, the desktop implementation of GNOME can be used in Fedora 20 right now, while Mir is constantly getting pushed back more and more... which is the vaporware, again?

                Btw, I held a Wayland phone (Sailfish) in my hand a couple of days ago, gotta say it was impressive... extremely responsive, smooth and visually stunning!
                Well it will feel smooth since behind the scenes they have optimized the protocol implementation for the platform is running on, but is that even portable? As an example, try compiling the raspberry pi wayland implementation on other platform. Also community is wasting a lot of time implementing the wayland protocol over and over again. It is like running while(true){ rewrite_wayland(); } Is funny because people said Canonical/Ubuntu was causing segmentation on the linux community but actually it is the otherway around. Want to use KDE? you need their wayland implementation, want to use Gnome? hey they also wrote a wayland implementation, whoaa the new shiny hawaii desktop? Enlightment? the same sh**....

                It even took the effort of a commercial company (collabora) to write the wayland implementation for the raspberry pi. Will everyone have the manpower or backing to write a wayland implementation for their hardware? I dont think so. Lets face it, Wayland is vaporware left in the hands of others to implement.

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                • #38
                  You don't know what you're talking about. Wayland is a protocol, and different implementations of that protocol, by definition, are compatible. You don't need KDE's compositor to run KDE applications, nor you need Gnome's compositor to run GNOME apps.
                  You can run Weston on the rpi even without the rpi backend, but it will run slower. Wayland does not need to have specific code for every platform, but it allows to, having much better permormances than on X, which doesn't allow that.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by pal666 View Post
                    stupid kid must know that by using xmir he uses x11, not mir, and that xmir is basically renamed xwayland.
                    i.e. dumb moron uses x11 via software, developed by wayland developers and masturbates on canonical
                    you just proved you dont even know what your talking about, now excuse me while i ignore you

                    PS: to anyone who acuses me to be a fanboy, your wrong.
                    while i am using ubuntu to check hows things are going my main os in win8.1 just cause i use what works.

                    Originally posted by TheOne View Post
                    Well it will feel smooth since behind the scenes they have optimized the protocol implementation for the platform is running on, but is that even portable? As an example, try compiling the raspberry pi wayland implementation on other platform. Also community is wasting a lot of time implementing the wayland protocol over and over again. It is like running while(true){ rewrite_wayland(); } Is funny because people said Canonical/Ubuntu was causing segmentation on the linux community but actually it is the otherway around. Want to use KDE? you need their wayland implementation, want to use Gnome? hey they also wrote a wayland implementation, whoaa the new shiny hawaii desktop? Enlightment? the same sh**....

                    It even took the effort of a commercial company (collabora) to write the wayland implementation for the raspberry pi. Will everyone have the manpower or backing to write a wayland implementation for their hardware? I dont think so. Lets face it, Wayland is vaporware left in the hands of others to implement.
                    like giucam said this isnt exactly true...
                    i do prefer Mir's way of doing this tho.
                    Last edited by TheSoulz; 02-16-2014, 11:12 AM.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by TheSoulz View Post
                      your wrong
                      imbecile, you don't have to use something exclusively to be fanboi

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by TheOne View Post
                        Will everyone have the manpower or backing to write a mir implementation for their hardware?
                        fixed it for you, moron

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by TheSoulz View Post
                          i do prefer Mir's way of doing this tho.
                          And what way would that be? Mir and wayland compositors work exactly the same in this regard.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by giucam View Post
                            And what way would that be? Mir and wayland compositors work exactly the same in this regard.
                            meant wayland's protocol plus compositor vs mir's protocol/compositor
                            my understanding is that with wayland unless people use toolkits to fix it every window can be different wich would make everything look bad in my opinion.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by pal666 View Post
                              imbecile, you don't have to use something exclusively to be fanboi
                              what part of "i use what works" did you not understand?
                              im gonna go the extra mile and be stupid by replying to you
                              while Xmir is running X the drivers are being handled by mir, so basicly your puting less work on X.
                              heres a good example try ubuntu with X while watching a movie turn volume up and notice the flicker that happens, now try the same with XMir

                              true is not the best thing to do since your running full DE on X talking to mir wich causes overhead but it fixes flickering,
                              making Xmir rooted not ideal for gaming

                              EDIT: fullscreen gaming should differente since in theory you can bypass X and use mir to handle the remaning process fullscreen apps require
                              Last edited by TheSoulz; 02-16-2014, 12:26 PM.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by TheOne View Post
                                Well it will feel smooth since behind the scenes they have optimized the protocol implementation for the platform is running on, but is that even portable? As an example, try compiling the raspberry pi wayland implementation on other platform.
                                Try running a computer with Nvidia GPU with AMD's GPU drivers.

                                That makes just as much sense as trying to run RPi's backend on another platform... the RPi has some very specific video hardware that needs a specific implementation.

                                Also community is wasting a lot of time implementing the wayland protocol over and over again.
                                Only asfar as you consider having multiple different DE's a "waste of time". Is it "waste of time" to write KDE when we already have GNOME (or the other way around)? Wayland isn't exactly "just a protocol". The compositors all use libwayland, which is a common implementation of the core protocol. Writing a compositor for Wayland isn't necessarily any more complex - maybe less in some cases - than writing a window manager for X. With Wayland, the window manager and compositor are one and the same, so when you write a window manager for your Wayland-compatible DE, the writing of a compositor isn't some "extra chore" you have to do - it's just a part of writing the window manager.

                                Also, all of these community implementations address slightly different needs and user bases, Wayland enables them all to do their own thing while maintaining compatibility with each other. Besides, we can compare that to what does Canonical do? "Wastes a lot of time" implementing their own protocol, which no one else is going to ever use, which is incompatible with everything else in the community.

                                It is like running while(true){ rewrite_wayland(); } Is funny because people said Canonical/Ubuntu was causing segmentation on the linux community but actually it is the otherway around. Want to use KDE? you need their wayland implementation, want to use Gnome? hey they also wrote a wayland implementation, whoaa the new shiny hawaii desktop? Enlightment? the same sh**....
                                If you're using GNOME, the Wayland compositor comes as a part of GNOME. GNOME's Wayland compositor will be compatible with KDE's Wayland compositor, but Mir won't be compatible with either.

                                It even took the effort of a commercial company (collabora) to write the wayland implementation for the raspberry pi. Will everyone have the manpower or backing to write a wayland implementation for their hardware? I dont think so. Lets face it, Wayland is vaporware left in the hands of others to implement.
                                Let's face it, you've been severely misinformed. Firstly, you speak of commercial companies and their necessity in implementing Wayland compositors. Well, let me ask you - what exactly do you think Canonical is? A charity?

                                Secondly, there are some non-commercial entities implementing their own Wayland compositors - several, in fact. How many non-commercial entities are implementing anything to do with Mir - I can't even make a direct comparison here, because there is no such thing as a "Mir-compatible compositor", and there never will be, other than Canonical's.

                                Thirdly, Wayland is less vaporware than Mir, seeing as Wayland is being deployed on commercial devices right now - I just held a phone running Wayland in my hands a couple of days ago. Where can I buy a device with Mir? Is there any non-test-version release of any operating system shipping Mir currently? No? Then if we talk about "vaporware", it's Mir that earns this designation better.

                                Wayland is making good progress. Now granted, there are some problems with it - nothing is perfect, but with the collaboration of community and several commercial backers, they're nothing that can't be solved down the line. With Mir, you're placing all your eggs in one basket, and it's a basket with a history of just forgetting its eggs somewhere and never speaking of them again, so...

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