Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Ubuntu 14.04 Looks Toward Qt 5.2, Qt Mir In 14.10

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by timofonic View Post
    You are very funny, really! Gnome did lost a lot of customizability these days, that's why Cinnamon and MATE happened.

    Do you mean the new generation of users are going to be smarter? So you hate experienced users, I see. Do you have any idea what "productive" is in a computing environment?
    Not smarter, but new generations will not have spent 20 years working with a task bar and a programs menu that it became part of their lives.

    And yes, I know what "productive" is in a computing environment and I am most productive with Gnome Shell.

    With a single keypress I get a zoom out of everything running on the computer.
    With a single keypress I get a terminal to slide down so I can quickly type my commands. Press it again and the terminal slides up.
    With a single shortcut I get a search box that lets me directly search in google, wikipedia, youtube, google maps, etc. without having to first open a browser and go to their respective URLs. I can also customize it and add whatever search query I like.
    With a single shortcut I can Google Translate any selected text without even opening a browser.
    With a single drag I can get the windows I am working with to tile nicely on the screen.
    I don't need to manage the virtual desktops because Gnome does that for me, adding and removing desktops as needed.
    With a single shortcut I switch between desktops.
    With a single keypress I can search through my applications quickly, including the running applications.
    I have almost the entire screen available for my applications.
    I have skype integrated into the top panel for quick access.
    I can disable and enable screen savers with a single click.
    I can switch between apps using alt+tab. I can also combine that with the mouse to go directly to what I want instead of continuous alt+tab presses.
    I can maximize and unmaximize windows with a single shortcut.

    And you can also customize all that with your own code. You also have access to an environment where you can control the DE programmatically.

    What else do you need to be productive?

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Honton View Post
      Uuuhmmm because other parts of the software stack depends on it? Having a single vendor controlling and doing asymmetric licensing on crucial parts makes everything very fragile and creates a million attack vectors against the whole stack. Qt have already been traded twice both to with large consequences.
      If the guys of this single vendor (digia) are nice and came to an agreement with the oss-community (kde etc.), this vendor is not bad in my eyes, even if he has controll and earns money with that.
      But I admit, that theoreticaly you are right about the attack vectors. That IS a potential future thread.
      But isnīt it correct that despite the two trades etc. the qt-community is healthy or at least ok at the moment?
      So in practice your fear did not come true yet.

      All the other guys that argue your point of view in this thread do not have this fear and believe in a bright future for qt / kde etc. So couldnīt you agree to disagree about the future? They a bit too optimistic you a bit too pessimistic. Same is with the numbers of currently declining kde dev numbers. You interpret them pessimistic, me optimistic. Lets meet in the middle and do productive stuff again. Even me. I am quite bored and thus follow this thread... we should all go back to .... to do something. lol.

      But something else - What are those "large consequences" of those two trades you are talking about? Did they affect someone (you?) badly?

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by sarmad View Post
        Not smarter, but new generations will not have spent 20 years working with a task bar and a programs menu that it became part of their lives.

        And yes, I know what "productive" is in a computing environment and I am most productive with Gnome Shell.

        With a single keypress I get a zoom out of everything running on the computer.
        With a single keypress I get a terminal to slide down so I can quickly type my commands. Press it again and the terminal slides up.
        With a single shortcut I get a search box that lets me directly search in google, wikipedia, youtube, google maps, etc. without having to first open a browser and go to their respective URLs. I can also customize it and add whatever search query I like.
        With a single shortcut I can Google Translate any selected text without even opening a browser.
        With a single drag I can get the windows I am working with to tile nicely on the screen.
        I don't need to manage the virtual desktops because Gnome does that for me, adding and removing desktops as needed.
        With a single shortcut I switch between desktops.
        With a single keypress I can search through my applications quickly, including the running applications.
        I have almost the entire screen available for my applications.
        I have skype integrated into the top panel for quick access.
        I can disable and enable screen savers with a single click.
        I can switch between apps using alt+tab. I can also combine that with the mouse to go directly to what I want instead of continuous alt+tab presses.
        I can maximize and unmaximize windows with a single shortcut.

        And you can also customize all that with your own code. You also have access to an environment where you can control the DE programmatically.

        What else do you need to be productive?
        To my knowledge all that is also possible with KDE or Windows 7. Except this:
        With a single keypress I can search through my applications quickly, including the running applications.

        How is this acomplished? With which application can you search within different other applications? Or did I get something wrong here...?

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Honton View Post
          The Nokia buyout was great for media support because it kicked out Phonon. But it was very disruptive to the widget part. Declarative language and mobile was introduced (too) aggressive. Nokia told that this would end up with "the next billion linu devices", that never materialized and Qt ended up redoing widgets and keeping QML at Digia now serving Blackberries! That is very disruptive and Nokia Legal held back alot during the last months. If you look at KDEs ohloh for the same period you will realize the consequences.

          The linux tool kit stack shouldn't be fragile due to delicate business.
          Just in case anyone was wondering what Shuttleworth meant with "Tea Party", this guy is it ^^^

          Extremist ideological drivel over. and over. and over. and over. again. all. the. time.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Daktyl198 View Post
            Why did Gnome take over development of GTK? I know that it was originally created for GIMP (it's the GIMP ToolKit) but I can't seem to find any articles or anything about Gnome taking it over...
            It's not like there was any kind of formal takeover, if that's what you're asking. It's just that Gnome has always been one of the biggest users, and biggest contributors to the toolkit. Basically, they control it simply by virtue of being the ones doing all the work.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Honton View Post
              Thank you. Im a proud Software Tea Party guy.
              I had you figured out. You do have their evangelical zeal, aggression and resistance to facts.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Honton View Post
                The Nokia buyout was great for media support because it kicked out Phonon. But it was very disruptive to the widget part. Declarative language and mobile was introduced (too) aggressive. Nokia told that this would end up with "the next billion linu devices", that never materialized and Qt ended up redoing widgets and keeping QML at Digia now serving Blackberries! That is very disruptive and Nokia Legal held back alot during the last months. If you look at KDEs ohloh for the same period you will realize the consequences.

                The linux tool kit stack shouldn't be fragile due to delicate business.
                What do you mean with nokia holding back something? What? I thought qt was sold from nokia to ... digia?
                I still do not get what you mean with disruptive here. I am not a developger but Kde devs and qt devs all seem quite happy with the situation, and I read quite some threads about this.
                And improving something (mobile, declarative language) ... isnīt that good? Its improvement. Too aggressive? What does that mean?
                IMHO: They started such mobile improvements just a year ago or so - so I would think it needs more time for QT to land in more/actual products (phones etc.)

                The kde ohloh numbers are wrong, as I showed you in the other thread. The graph I made is made from the numbers I picked myself from the kde digest. Ohloh claims that their graph is derived from the same source but they have totally different numbers - how can that be? Please check yourself and compare the digest numbers with the oloh grapf - there is something totally wrong there...

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by tomtomme View Post
                  To my knowledge all that is also possible with KDE or Windows 7. Except this:
                  With a single keypress I can search through my applications quickly, including the running applications.

                  How is this acomplished? With which application can you search within different other applications? Or did I get something wrong here...?
                  I haven't used KDE in a long long time so I won't comment on it, but Windows 7? I don't think so. I feel crippled when I use Windows 7. There are most probably tools that can do anything on any desktop environment but how easy is it to find those tools and how easy is it to install them? Even Gnome doesn't come with all this out of the box and I needed to install them from extensions.gnome.org, but it made it very easy for me to find and install what I want and without even affecting other users or needing root access. Install is a single click, uninstall is another single click. Can't get any simpler.

                  As for the search, you probably misunderstood what I meant. I meant searching for applications by typing their names instead of browsing through hierarchical menus. If the app is not running it will launch it. If it's already running it will switch to it. I know this is available on all DEs, but I'm just stating that Gnome is not falling short on this front coz this is quite a crucial feature.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by tomtomme View Post
                    How is this acomplished? With which application can you search within different other applications? Or did I get something wrong here...?
                    I assume what he means is that if you press the "Start/Windows" key, it brings up the overview of running applications. And from there, typing the name (or relevant keywords) will produce an auto-completing list of all applications, documents, etc. It's a different UI, but it's pretty similar functionality to the search feature in the Windows 7 start menu. Not unique to Gnome, but it *is* one of the most important parts of Shell, as far as efficiency of the UI is concerned...

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Honton View Post
                      Can you give one reason why Digia shouldn't prioritize Canonical before KDE?
                      Can you give an example how Digia would currently prioritize KDE before Canonical?

                      Cheers,
                      _

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Honton View Post
                        Even KDE have to sign the CLA, beause Digia won' accept GPL.
                        KDE e.V. has not signed the Qt CLA because that would be pointless since it is not an employer of any developer working on Qt.

                        Cheers,
                        _

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by timofonic View Post
                          What I see, both KDE and Gnome are inefficient and lack standarization in many ways (KIO vs GIO, kdewallet vs gnome-keyring, phonon vs gstreamer...).
                          Two of the three examples are pretty bad ones.

                          The maintainers of KWallet and GNOME Keyring have worked together on a common system called "Secret Service".

                          Phonon and GStreamer is even worse, since they are not two different implementations of the same facility at all. Phonon is a simple Qt style API on top of platform media frameworks such as GStreamer.

                          Originally posted by timofonic View Post
                          It's a shame to not see a lightweight competitor to Evince and Okular in XFCE, for example (there should be a proper framework to read documents and that code shared between major apps).
                          That also exists and is called Poppler or libpoppler. Both Evince and Okular, as well as other document viewers, use it. I believe it is even one of the few projects hostet on freedesktop.org infrastructure

                          Cheers,
                          _

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Honton View Post
                            Sponsorship.
                            Hmm, right, but why would a company sponsor another company? Or are you more thinking in terms of investing in Canonical, e.g. buying some kind of participation?

                            Cheers,
                            _

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Honton View Post
                              KDE developers, sorry.
                              Ah, that makes more sense.
                              I am not sure though what you are trying to convey. Being a KDE developer does not require one to sign any paperwork, being a Qt contributor does not require one to be a KDE developer or vice versa.

                              Cheers,
                              _

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by timofonic View Post
                                What I see, both KDE and Gnome are inefficient and lack standarization in many ways (KIO vs GIO, kdewallet vs gnome-keyring, phonon vs gstreamer...).
                                Two of those three examples are not really good.

                                The maintainers of KWallet and GNOME Keyring have worked on a shared specification called Secret Service. They have either already implemented it or have staged it for upcoming releases of their respective storage service.

                                Phonon and GStreamer are aren't even two implementations of the same facilities. Phonon is a simple Qt style API for easier use of platform media frameworks such as GStreamer if the application use case does not require full media framework capabilities.

                                Originally posted by timofonic View Post
                                It's a shame to not see a lightweight competitor to Evince and Okular in XFCE, for example (there should be a proper framework to read documents and that code shared between major apps).
                                Actually there is. It is called Poppler and unsurprisingly used by both Evince and Okular.

                                Originally posted by timofonic View Post
                                I just hope Freedesktop.org effort gets stronger and standarize a lot more parts of the desktop ecosystem.
                                Progress there is often not very obvious but happening nontheless.

                                Cheers,
                                _

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X