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Ubuntu 14.04 Looks Toward Qt 5.2, Qt Mir In 14.10

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  • #16
    Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
    Hopefully Gnome will die. Linux needs only one toolkit. Anyways, nice progress from Canonical. Always thinking one step ahead.
    Gnome won't die anytime soon, not until someone makes a DE that is more usable and more customizable. Gnome has lost a lot of its existing users who are used to the more traditional kind of desktops, but the new generation of users will find Gnome to be the most productive desktop environment, especially after customizing it to your needs from the pool of hundreds of existing extensions. Also, Gnome is currently progressing at a pace faster than other environment. The only point I have against Gnome 3 is the use of web technologies (CSS, Javascript) which makes it slow and heavy.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by timofonic View Post
      You should be banned, using pejorative language. Who are you to insult that way?
      If you don't think that his language is respectful(which calling someone an arse, most certainly isn't), then hit the little black triangle with the exclamation mark in the left side on his post, and tell the moderators about his abusive language. No one has the right to speak like that to someone in civilized society, IMO.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Honton View Post
        No. Did you really think Digia would care one bit for KDE if a better promotion opportunity showed up? Hell Digia might even get some money from Canonical to do consulting and support. It might be Digia and Canonical killing off KDE, if you won't accept he fact that Gnome is killing KDE.
        competing with bo$$ for the Phoronix Troll of the Year award?

        well with your utterly ovbious lack of knowledge about the topic i have very real doubts anyone will take you seriously, so put back that tinfoil hat and back to your cave

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Honton View Post
          No. Did you really think Digia would care one bit for KDE if a better promotion opportunity showed up? Hell Digia might even get some money from Canonical to do consulting and support. It might be Digia and Canonical killing off KDE, if you won't accept he fact that Gnome is killing KDE.
          And why would someone be so happy about a opensource software project dying - isnīt windows the "enemy"?

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Honton View Post
            No. Did you really think Digia would care one bit for KDE if a better promotion opportunity showed up? Hell Digia might even get some money from Canonical to do consulting and support. It might be Digia and Canonical killing off KDE, if you won't accept he fact that Gnome is killing KDE.
            kde rely on Qt , contribute to it and it will protect its freedom where necessary
            Qt license is free and will remain free

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Honton View Post
              Not according to Digia. Windows is a huge market to Qt and any commit hitting Qt MUST take windows and other non-free platforms into account. that is how you do business when you provide a commrcial frame work.
              So please show us commits that were rejected because they didn't take Windows or other platforms into account. If you can't you have just busted yourself.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by TheBlackCat View Post
                Honton is a notorious troll who will say anything, even blatantly lie, to trash any DE other than Gnome. He has a handful of talking points he uses to derail any thread even remotely related to any DE other than Gnome into a flamefest.
                I was mentioning Vim_User, not Honton.

                Originally posted by sarmad View Post
                Gnome won't die anytime soon, not until someone makes a DE that is more usable and more customizable. Gnome has lost a lot of its existing users who are used to the more traditional kind of desktops, but the new generation of users will find Gnome to be the most productive desktop environment, especially after customizing it to your needs from the pool of hundreds of existing extensions. Also, Gnome is currently progressing at a pace faster than other environment. The only point I have against Gnome 3 is the use of web technologies (CSS, Javascript) which makes it slow and heavy.

                You are very funny, really! Gnome did lost a lot of customizability these days, that's why Cinnamon and MATE happened.

                Do you mean the new generation of users are going to be smarter? So you hate experienced users, I see. Do you have any idea what "productive" is in a computing environment? These days computer users are less skilled and more used to crappy software than before, they lack patience and knowledge to find suitable software for many tasks (unless they are a bit passionate about computers). And people aren't so used to waste HOURS finding those damn extensions in Gnome, it's way for more difficult to install them than in Firefox.

                What's progressing at a faster pace? I see MANY projects migrating from GTK to Qt.

                KDE had many really bad practices like releasing an UNSTABLE version as final software, (4.0) and I got lots of problems when using it on many systems I maintain. They also have stuff like nepomuk, that eats lots of I/O and can make the system unusable.

                KDE is the lesser problem about Digia, maybe they get a bit of individual contributors and such. But their success is on propietary platforms and it's going to be that way for a lot of time.

                What I see, both KDE and Gnome are inefficient and lack standarization in many ways (KIO vs GIO, kdewallet vs gnome-keyring, phonon vs gstreamer...). That's good for more lightweight and flexible competitors, like XFCE. The problem is that "complete" solutions are blind and only look to their own environment, and are quite bloated too. It's a shame to not see a lightweight competitor to Evince and Okular in XFCE, for example (there should be a proper framework to read documents and that code shared between major apps). I just hope Freedesktop.org effort gets stronger and standarize a lot more parts of the desktop ecosystem.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Honton View Post
                  No. The Qt upstream is CLAed. Even KDE have to sign the CLA, beause Digia won' accept GPL.
                  total bullshit
                  you don't have to sign CLA to use Qt
                  you don't have to sign the CLA to fork Qt
                  that's why there is an agreement between KDE foundation and Nokia and later Digia
                  there is the KDE Free Qt Foundation that protect the freedom of Qt
                  Qt project uses many KDE contributions and Digia can't just ignore them when attempting to close the code
                  the free sofwatre version of Qt will remain free and independent

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by timofonic View Post
                    You are very funny, really! Gnome did lost a lot of customizability these days.
                    Gnome lost a lot of usability , not just customization.

                    , that's why Cinnamon and MATE happened
                    And Unity ... damn! at least 3 forks , 4 gnome desktops. Gnome 3, what a disaster .

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Honton View Post
                      you quoted me on the very topic on contributing to Qt. And that requires CLA.
                      yes
                      but many Qt framework contributors and approvers are active within KDE project. Many Qt project modules are developed and maintained by KDE contributors. Digia can't take the risk of closing the code, they would loose many active conrtibutors and maintainers within the Qt project itself and the KDE Qt Foundation can continue the development of the free version of Qt. There is a interdependency and close relationship between the two projects and there is a legal aggreement protecting the freedom of Qt

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Honton View Post
                        Not according to Digia. Windows is a huge market to Qt and any commit hitting Qt MUST take windows and other non-free platforms into account. that is how you do business when you provide a commrcial frame work.
                        So from your point of view it is bad to take money for a good product? To take money for open source software is evil? Did I get that right? Digia is commercial, so they are bad guys?
                        How far would open source software be without paid developers and big firms with commercial interests in open source software?

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Honton View Post
                          Making money on free software is not wrong. Making money from asymmetric licensing on a crucial part of the stack is wrong.
                          why? ?

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Honton View Post
                            Accepting Qt's CLA is no different than accepting Canonical's CLA.
                            With this piece I agree wholeheartly. And there's nothing wrong with any.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by benalib View Post
                              total bullshit
                              you don't have to sign CLA to use Upstart/Mir/Unity
                              you don't have to sign the CLA to fork Upstart/Mir/Unity
                              I modified your post. It holds true if you change the software too. Let your any upstart/mir/unity. Hypocrite much?

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                              • #30
                                Ingoring the Honton wars and slightly more on topic...

                                Why did Gnome take over development of GTK? I know that it was originally created for GIMP (it's the GIMP ToolKit) but I can't seem to find any articles or anything about Gnome taking it over...

                                As for Ubuntu leaning more towards Qt, that's fine by me. I personally don't like the way Gnome manages GTK... I wish the Mint team would fork that too (Everything they've forked from Gnome has only gotten better :P). I think that GTK could potentially be huge and popular and awesome, but the way Gnome manages it is horrible...

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