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Ubuntu 14.04 Codename Revealed, Mir Haters Attacked

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  • #16
    By contrast, those same outraged individuals have NIH’d just about every important piece of the stack they can get their hands on…
    Wow... has Canonical really sunk this low? Mark is accusing others of the NIH Syndrome when in fact Mir is the result of NIH (Wayland was released/worked on earlier than Mir, http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/551).
    Last edited by j2723; 10-18-2013, 11:19 AM.

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    • #17
      Shuttleworth:
      Every app developer will consume Mir through their toolkit
      For many it's "shoved mir down their throats", for the rest it's "using mir", nobody is "consuming" software, unless in a feckless PR world.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by wargames View Post
        He probably works form M$. M$ knows the only thing that can "break" Linux is its fragmentation. I'm sure they spend a lot of money trying to kill Linux. They want us to use the CIA/NSA supported M$ Windows 8.1.
        the keyword and probably the thing that is going on with Ubuntu here is fragmentation.
        that was the first and only word that came to my mind when I read the article.

        too bad that there are people who work and contribute code to this monster that is changing with the publicity it gets(by public acceptance of-course).

        I don't oversee the fact that Ubuntu brought people to Linux just by simplifying things, but with a great name, that Ubuntu has become, comes and great responsibility and they don't seem to be any responsible and as a result thankful to the Linux community.

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        • #19
          "The Community" said similar things when Novell made a patent license agreement with Microsoft.

          The CLA is no problem. The FSF does the same thing, and if you have something interesting to add to Mir, just fork it, it's GPLv3 code. Look at Cinnamon or Mate, more crap on the desktop ecosystem because they don't get well together, they have subjectively different goals although the final commitment is the same.

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          • #20
            As a staunch believer in the 'survival of the fittest' and 'don't like it then fork it and let the community pick the winner' when it comes to the open source I have no problem with Mir, what I think was the big uproar when it was introduced was the stated reasons for doing it, which were nothing but a bunch of lies.

            They (Canonical) want a stack which they control from top to bottom, upstart, unity, mir etc, and that's their choice and I see no problem with that. But it's certainly hilarious when Shuttleworth then accuses others of NIH syndrome, I mean seriously wtf?

            Also this kind of lashing-out response from him indicates that he is under some pressure in regards to Mir, perhaps not surprising as the rest of the Linux ecosystem seems to align behind Wayland.

            That said I could certainly see myself using Mir if it ends up being the better choice for my needs, or if it emerges as the de facto standard new display server. I don't expect it to happen though, as again Wayland seems to have a lot more developer mindshare behind it.

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            • #21
              He's right and wrong at the same time...

              Since the Tea Party is devoted to stopping the bloat and expansion of the federal government into every aspect of our lives, Shuttleworth ironically drew a correct parallel but then shot himself in the foot: The people who are criticizing Mir are like the Tea Party in that they want the normal open-source development process to work the way it should instead of having an ever-expanding one-size-fits-all everyone-will-conform-with-us approach that Shuttleworth has been trying to drive down our throats over the last few years.

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              • #22
                People should just accept others' choice and be done with it. Like the Tea Party analogy from Mark is really bad. It's not fitting unless Mark has a hatred for that type of politics. Yeah I know the Tea Party just played a big part in Debt-Default shenanigans in DC and rightly so.

                Now that we're nearing the release of version one of Ubuntu-Touch it is interesting to see what's eventuated. What is apparent is that not all ends well at Canonical. In question is quality. Ubuntu-Touch operating system is far from what was portrayed at the start of the project's announcement. Canonical's failure has been to not put Artists and Designers in the commanding role with quality-assurance. Much of the core applications are liken to a dog's breakfast in the areas of style, method, and windowing components.

                Example each application has its own take on searching for a Country by name with no respect to Ubuntu Touch artist-impressions and general cohesion. It simply doesn't pull off the 'wow' factor got from early interactive demos. It's like the Coders have been allowed to dictate the visuals, not those with the flare or vocation to, and it shows.

                I just hope Ubuntu-Phone is not laughed at by the Market. Anyway Canonical did one thing great is they got so far so quick with little resources. I give them that. Mir is also a success which is the crux of the thread.
                Last edited by e8hffff; 10-18-2013, 11:46 AM.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Filiprino View Post
                  The CLA is no problem. The FSF does the same thing, and if you have something interesting to add to Mir, just fork it, it's GPLv3 code. Look at Cinnamon or Mate, more crap on the desktop ecosystem because they don't get well together, they have subjectively different goals although the final commitment is the same.
                  It depends on how much you trust the entity which requires CLA's, personally I don't really trust Canonical not to turn around and use their sole copyright to allow proprietary extensions to Mir or something similar, I do however feel very confident that a organisation like FSF won't do anything like that as they have been unwavering in their positions regarding free software for ages, which of course is also why they exist to begin with.

                  Canonical on the other hand is out to make a profit, which may very well end up clouding their open source commitment. I'm not saying they WILL go down that path, sofar they've open sourced everything they have afaik.

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                  • #24
                    It is about interoperability, Shuttleworth. freedesktop.org is about more than hosting a project - it is about making a project suited to all stakeholders and vendors, making a reliable system that others can build on. Everything you have attacked is a part of this - you dislike a system that is in place for the public good, that exists to promote fairness and equality in the Linux world, and that provides necessary services to millions of users without discrimination. In order to aid your goal of shutting this down you have spread FUD and lies and have constantly tried to misrepresent the truth, just because you are unwilling to work with others and have an antagonistic position against the community. If that does not spell Tea Party I don't know what does.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by XorEaxEax View Post
                      Also this kind of lashing-out response from him indicates that he is under some pressure in regards to Mir, perhaps not surprising as the rest of the Linux ecosystem seems to align behind Wayland.
                      I don't think that's been tested yet and is it a numbers game or who got the biggest mass?

                      Example is it 'Distros' planning on using Wayland versus those wanting 'Mir', or is it User base count. Personally I think Mir will be more successful in user counts and probably be faster in display results. Lets not forget Steam OS may use Mir if it goes beyond simple display techniques.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by e8hffff View Post
                        Personally I think Mir will be more successful in user counts and probably be faster in display results. Lets not forget Steam OS may use Mir if it goes beyond simple display techniques.
                        Is there anything pointing at SteamOS using Mir? Also is there something technical (as in architecture) which makes you think Mir will be faster?

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                        • #27
                          Shuttleworth is high on Jenkem. If you don't know what it is look it up on Google.

                          Originally posted by XorEaxEax View Post
                          Is there anything pointing at SteamOS using Mir? Also is there something technical (as in architecture) which makes you think Mir will be faster?
                          No there isn't he is just making shit up. Fullscreen applications don't need the display server anyway and games just render into the GPU framebuffer. Also with neither NVIDIA or AMD having Mir driver this ist just bullshit.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by XorEaxEax View Post
                            Canonical on the other hand is out to make a profit, which may very well end up clouding their open source commitment. I'm not saying they WILL go down that path, sofar they've open sourced everything they have afaik.
                            I was under the impression that Ubuntu One is partly proprietary?

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by lakerssuperman View Post
                              He does understand that the Tea Party is a fringe group of loonies, not a large segmet of the political populus in America, right? Taking that logic, doing something totally unecessary and questioning what most other recognized parties have concluded as the way forward, it would make sense to characterize Canonical as the Tea Party. Most people see Wayland as the path forward, except Canonical and to hear them tell it, up is down and right is left.

                              Pretty soon, Canonical will start telling us not to trust the mainstream Linux media because they are pushing a liberal Wayland agenda. Wayland will be Obamacare in 3,2,1...
                              The Tea Baggers are a small, but incredibly vocal and well connected in both the corporate and political worlds that are a threat to the world's economies by devaluing the dollar and defaulting on treasury bonds held by forigegn companies and countries.

                              Obama should have strung them up with the 14th Amendment's clause that "The Full Faith And Credit Of The United States Shall Not Be Questioned." * because the Teabaggers are set to make this a problem again in December. But as we all know, Obama has no balls.

                              * It's from the Civil War, the Rebel states wanted to break the US government after the war by getting the US to pay off their war debts for them. They where denied.

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                              • #30
                                Waiting for other distros to name themselves "Golden Eagle"

                                Tahr aren't /that/ trusty... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XafAdkZIYKA

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