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Ubuntu Phone 13.10: The Runway Is Clear For Mir

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  • #11
    So? It's not the first time Canonical reverses efforts. So why can't they switch to Wayland now, only NIH reasons? Also, when exactly was that decision taken? If Canonical would be smart enough to discuss that with Wayland at that point, they could drive those features additions.

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    • #12
      Originally posted by shmerl View Post
      So? It's not the first time Canonical reverses efforts. So why can't they switch to Wayland now, only NIH reasons? Also, when exactly was that decision taken? If Canonical would be smart enough to discuss that with Wayland at that point, they could drive those features additions.
      Well at this time the biggest win for Mir over Wayland is testing. The amounts of tests for Mir is immense and is also
      the biggest part of the code. As Canonical is really into testing they would never switch now. Also the win in switching
      to Wayland isn't that big any more and is shrinking for every day while the cost of switching for Wayland is getting
      bigger for every day.

      We don't know exactly when that decision were taken as were taken in private.

      Well, probably they could. Now they didn't. Stop crying.

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      • #13
        The win of switching to Wayland is immense. Canonical stops fooling around and wasting efforts on reinventing the wheel and starts collaborating with the community. Reduces the burden for graphical libraries in unnecessarily supporting two backends instead of one (in post X.org times), reduces the burden of driver developers to account for two servers (Intel mess already demonstrated it's an issue) and so on. Reduces the mess for derivative distros who aren't using Mir and etc. and etc. There are many benefits. Canonical just need to wise up, but they are too selfish to admit they messed up with that decision since literally no one benefits, but the downsides are a plenty.

        No one stops them from testing with Wayland. Jolla rigidly tests Sailfish with Wayland, so what's the problem?

        Before Canonical were spending time on using Compiz. But later dropped the idea. I expect the same thing to happen with Mir in the future.
        Last edited by shmerl; 10-08-2013, 02:54 PM.

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        • #14
          Originally posted by Pajn View Post
          First: If you don't trust the app developer to not manipulate the libraries, how can you trust the app itself?
          Second (Why no dependencies): Click packages is designed for the phones, phones are slow. Dependency
          resolving requires every install to scan all installed packages to see if the dependency is installed. On
          mobile platforms this is real slow (look at raspberry pi). As mobile apps usually don't require dependencies
          (look at Android, no problem there) this is unnecessary.
          Yes that's right, but this does not solve the issue raised that libraries stay outdated and are doubled.
          But I guess it's alright because Android and MacOS is doing the same...

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          • #15
            Originally posted by Pajn View Post
            Well, what Wayland does now have very little to do with what Wayland did when the decision was taken.
            I'm not sure how true that is. Much of the input handling was added fairly recently, but they could've asked the devs about its status.
            Apparently mesa handles things on the client-side so there would be no swimming against the tide EXCEPT for when mesa is used and they still have to deal with that.
            The bottom line is this was not a decision that was up to the devs. Watching that recent state or mir talk with CHR made that even more clear to me based on both his responses and his embarrassed expressions. I genuinely feel sorry that the devs were put in this situation if my interpretation is correct.

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            • #16
              Originally posted by Pajn View Post
              Well, what Wayland does now have very little to do with what Wayland did when the decision was taken.
              True, but those claims were bullshit at the time decision was taken. That's a big part of why so many people have a grudge against Mir - that when they launched their project, they justified it with a bunch of lies and misinformation about Wayland. And they *were* lies, because if they'd looked at Wayland as closely as they claimed, they'd have known those statements were incorrect.

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              • #17
                Originally posted by theghost View Post
                Click packages too my mind is a really stuped idea.
                You can read all about it here: http://www.jonobacon.org/2013/08/21/...pload-process/

                Click packages are designed to only depend on Qt-libs (are Ubuntu-SDK-libs).
                If you app depends on external (non-Ubuntu SDK) libs, the developer has to bundle the library into the click package instead of using and installing the libaries from the official repository. Here lies the problem, instead on relying in the repo, they get:

                1. wasted storage, because the same library is contained and used in different apps
                2. static linking, insted of using the libraries from apt, a library version of click package is used

                It's in general the same problem as under MacOS which is also a security flaw. Who guarantees, that the package libraries are not manipulated or outdated ? Exactly, nobody. And Ubuntu's devs are saying that it's all no problem, they have sandboxing (just read through the comments). This is ridicoulus and simply stupid.
                1. Space isn't extremely limited like it used to be. Most OSX .dmg .app files measure into the hundreds of megabytes each, yet hardly any users complain about them. Similarly, .apk files function the same way on Android and there seems to be little criticism there besides from proprietary software developers and that's mostly around piracy.

                2. This isn't a problem, but a benefit. Say for instance you have library Z v1.5 but v1.6 comes out which your script is incompatible with, apt-get does an upgrade and suddenly you don't have a functioning script.
                Having libraries bundled with the application stops this sort of breakage occurring.

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by theghost View Post
                  Click packages too my mind is a really stuped idea.
                  You can read all about it here: http://www.jonobacon.org/2013/08/21/...pload-process/

                  Click packages are designed to only depend on Qt-libs (are Ubuntu-SDK-libs).
                  If you app depends on external (non-Ubuntu SDK) libs, the developer has to bundle the library into the click package instead of using and installing the libaries from the official repository. Here lies the problem, instead on relying in the repo, they get:

                  1. wasted storage, because the same library is contained and used in different apps
                  2. static linking, insted of using the libraries from apt, a library version of click package is used

                  It's in general the same problem as under MacOS which is also a security flaw. Who guarantees, that the package libraries are not manipulated or outdated ? Exactly, nobody. And Ubuntu's devs are saying that it's all no problem, they have sandboxing (just read through the comments). This is ridicoulus and simply stupid.
                  Correct. Ubuntu is becoming a dumber and dumber distro every day. They have totally lost their minds over there.

                  And now in 13.10 you have to go through all kinds of gymnastics just to get the adware deactivated.

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                  • #19
                    I think it is very alarming, they are pushing in fixes mere days before the release. The idea that a release date cannot be pushed back will result in buggy release...

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by johnc View Post

                      And now in 13.10 you have to go through all kinds of gymnastics just to get the adware deactivated.
                      what?? dash/applications/filter results/search plugins/click on amazon and disable

                      Pretty straight forward id of thought What issue do you have with the other scopes in the 100 Scopes project apart from amazon ?

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