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  • #21
    Originally posted by bkor View Post
    Canonical adopted Upstart and hired the key developer. Nothing wrong with that. It was then used by Red Hat+Fedora. Still nothing wrong with that. Now systemd came along and is (IMO) much better. It would be much better if Canonical switched to Upstart and you can argue about them switching yes or no. But nothing wrong with them adopting Upstart. Though IMO get with the times and go systemd! :P
    Upstart was not a Fix for really any thing it was more of a helpper

    Originally posted by Malizor View Post
    Can you point me to any source that would explain that these new kernel features are Systemd only and can not be used by Upstart if needed?
    About NIH, remember that Upstart existed before Systemd...

    As we are on Phoronix and we all love trolling, I would like to remind you the wonderful post of Raof on #wayland-devel after Mir was unveiled :
    systemd and Upstart are really not the same at all Upstart is a replacement for the old init daemon and systemd is a system and service manager Etc

    this is from 2011
    http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/why.html
    2013
    http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html

    this is just a start
    http://www.linux.com/news/featured-b...roups-redesign

    the bad part is i'm not even trying to troll...

    "23:50 <RAOF> Heh. It's our turn to pull a systemd!" remember how that ended up? for him?

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    • #22
      Originally posted by LinuxGamer View Post
      Upstart was not a Fix for really any thing it was more of a helpper



      systemd and Upstart are really not the same at all Upstart is a replacement for the old init daemon and systemd is a system and service manager Etc

      this is from 2011
      http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/why.html
      2013
      http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html

      this is just a start
      http://www.linux.com/news/featured-b...roups-redesign

      the bad part is i'm not even trying to troll...
      Time will tell, but many thought Upstart was going to fade away (even before 12.04) and it is still here today.
      It is still developed and major features were added lately, like full session management (which, AFAIK, is not yet implemented in Systemd).
      I'm not saying that Upstart is better than Systemd, just that it provides everything needed by Ubuntu, including for phablet uses.
      Perhaps a transition toward Systemd will be done later, but it's just not needed/justified for now.

      Also, note that you can "sudo apt-get install systemd" on your Ubuntu box if you want to


      "23:50 <RAOF> Heh. It's our turn to pull a systemd!" remember how that ended up? for him?
      He is still one of the main Mir developer?
      If you talk about this IRC chat, I think it went quite good, considering that he was alone against a bunch of (understandably) angry Wayland devs

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      • #23
        Originally posted by Malizor View Post
        Time will tell, but many thought Upstart was going to fade away (even before 12.04) and it is still here today.
        It is still developed and major features were added lately, like full session management (which, AFAIK, is not yet implemented in Systemd).
        I'm not saying that Upstart is better than Systemd, just that it provides everything needed by Ubuntu, including for phablet uses.
        Perhaps a transition toward Systemd will be done later, but it's just not needed/justified for now.

        Also, note that you can "sudo apt-get install systemd" on your Ubuntu box if you want to

        He is still one of the main Mir developer?
        If you talk about this IRC chat, I think it went quite good, considering that he was alone against a bunch of (understandably) angry Wayland devs
        i remember that IRC when really bad for him as it showed he did not even know a thing about Wayland i also remember him changing the Mir Wiki Over it

        full session management what do you mean by this? buzzword? system log's? some call a PolicyKit that? do you call Amazon AD's that? what do you call it? can you go into detail? systemd has maybe 40+ features over upstart and, many kernel features on the way

        you know a session manager is not needed look at Microsoft Windows

        and sudo apt-get install systemd will not work on all Ubuntu's

        Btw linux is lower case so it's called systemd

        systemd really is needed even for Ubuntu as it has kernel features Web Admins/System want

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        • #24
          Originally posted by LinuxGamer View Post
          i remember that IRC when really bad for him as it showed he did not even know a thing about Wayland i also remember him changing the Mir Wiki Over it

          full session management what do you mean by this? buzzword? system log's? some call a PolicyKit that? do you call Amazon AD's that? what do you call it? can you go into detail? systemd has maybe 40+ features over upstart and, many kernel features on the way

          you know a session manager is not needed look at Microsoft Windows
          https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsT...rtUserSessions

          The Lennart rant is here ("we want to do exactly the same but Upstart devs implemented a different API than the one we want, so they are responsible for the future incompatibility with systemd")
          https://plus.google.com/115547683951...ts/ZZWLtq6tYdn


          Originally posted by LinuxGamer View Post
          systemd really is needed even for Ubuntu as it has kernel features Web Admins/System want
          If it is really needed, I'm confident it will be used later. It's just not needed for now.

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by Malizor View Post
            The Lennart rant is here ("we want to do exactly the same but Upstart devs implemented a different API than the one we want, so they are responsible for the future incompatibility with systemd")
            That isn't even close to what he said. What he actually said was basically "We didn't do what Ubuntu just did because it would break compatibility with Ubuntu and we were trying to avoid that. But Ubuntu went ahead and did it anyway."
            Last edited by TheBlackCat; 08-20-2013, 03:59 AM.

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            • #26
              What he said is that it was possible in systemd at the time, just not in an ideal manner. That is also a rather old post. Last I checked, user sessions on systemd worked with the latest D-Bus code (unfortunately I couldn't try it out due to Gentoo not having the latest D-Bus). This was a few months ago, so I'm pretty confident it works just fine now. You can start the whole system with just systemd, including the GUI, without using any login manager. And users already have a place to store user-specific unit files (in ~/.systemd).

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