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Radeon Driver On XMir Still Is Messy Experience

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Alejandro Nova View Post
    At this point, I don't know if not working with Mir is a bug or a feature.
    That would be a missing feature...
    We know you don't like Mir, and you were trying to be funny (didn't work), but it's still a missing feature.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by DanL View Post
      That would be a missing feature...
      We know you don't like Mir, and you were trying to be funny (didn't work), but it's still a missing feature.
      Or for those of us that wont use Mir and prefer thin and light systems it could be considered a free bonus.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by birdstream View Post
        As long as there is no Mir support from NVidia, Geforce users have to use the open source nouveau driver to run Mir. And it's not even close in performance to the NVidia binary blobs - Still slow, still buggy, and overall still sucks major balls. Unless the nouveu driver gets some crazy development until Ubuntu 14.04, or NVidia by then fully supports Mir, it's distro switch for me
        Nvidia is reportedly working on an EGL driver, so I don't think people have to worry so much. The nvidia EGL driver may not be ready by 13.10, but 13.10 still has a fallback X session so that's not a big deal. I'm sure there will be something by 14.04.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by bwat47 View Post
          Nvidia is reportedly working on an EGL driver, so I don't think people have to worry so much. The nvidia EGL driver may not be ready by 13.10, but 13.10 still has a fallback X session so that's not a big deal. I'm sure there will be something by 14.04.
          Like i mentioned in my first post, as long as it works I really don't care

          I'm not a programmer, but doesn't all the games need to be programmed to use EGL rather than GLX? Or is it magically just going to work somehow?

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          • #20
            Originally posted by birdstream View Post
            Like i mentioned in my first post, as long as it works I really don't care

            I'm not a programmer, but doesn't all the games need to be programmed to use EGL rather than GLX? Or is it magically just going to work somehow?
            EGL and GLX will both be supported so it should work either way. EGL isnt really designed for games, it's more for creating user interfaces. GLX is what you want to use for games.
            Last edited by duby229; 08-08-2013, 03:29 AM.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by duby229 View Post
              EGL and GLX will both be supported so it should work either way. EGL isnt really designed for games, it's more for creating user interfaces. GLX is what you want to use for games.
              Really? I was under the impression that EGL provides just as much functionality as GLX does, but is window-system independent rather than GLX that is specific to X (In the same way WGL is to Windows and CGL to Mac).
              So, when there is no X anymore we're no longer running GLX, right? And apps that uses GLX will have to go with some GLX-to-EGL wrapper, am I correct?
              Last edited by birdstream; 08-08-2013, 04:36 AM.

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              • #22
                No game will have to be written in EGL. Games use OpenGL and mostly trough toolkits like SDL. That's why games like Doom 3, Neverball and the Nintendo Gamecube emulator Dolphin work with Wayland, when you export the SDL_VIDEODRIVER variable to be "wayland". That's it.

                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZdXu1VM_VQ

                http://static.hackmii.com/dhewg/dhewm3_wl.webm

                http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...tem&px=MTQyMjQ
                Last edited by blackout23; 08-08-2013, 04:47 AM.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by blackout23 View Post
                  No game will have to be written in EGL. Games use OpenGL and mostly trough toolkits like SDL. That's why games like Doom 3, Neverball and the Nintendo Gamecube emulator Dolphin work with Wayland, when you export the SDL_VIDEODRIVER variable to be "wayland". That's it.

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZdXu1VM_VQ

                  http://static.hackmii.com/dhewg/dhewm3_wl.webm

                  http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...tem&px=MTQyMjQ
                  I play mostly Dota2 and Euro Truck Simulator 2 at the time being I think Dota2 uses SDL(?) can't say what ETS2 uses though.. And also World Of Tanks using PlayOnLinux/Wine. Performance is good, and have been improved.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by birdstream View Post
                    I play mostly Dota2 and Euro Truck Simulator 2 at the time being I think Dota2 uses SDL(?) can't say what ETS2 uses though.. And also World Of Tanks using PlayOnLinux/Wine. Performance is good, and have been improved.
                    Yes, Dota2 uses SDL, just like any other source game (with the only exception that they finally use OpenAL instead of SDL for sound). No idea what ETS2 uses, too, but games played through Wine are a completely different story as they talk to Windows APIs. So the question is what Wine uses. AFAIK it uses GLX, but I might be wrong here.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by TAXI View Post
                      Yes, Dota2 uses SDL, just like any other source game (with the only exception that they finally use OpenAL instead of SDL for sound). No idea what ETS2 uses, too, but games played through Wine are a completely different story as they talk to Windows APIs. So the question is what Wine uses. AFAIK it uses GLX, but I might be wrong here.
                      EGL should be easy to add to WINE if it doesn't have an EGL backend yet. It has to have some kind of abstraction layer already so that it can run on OSX (which doesn't provide GLX).

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
                        EGL should be easy to add to WINE if it doesn't have an EGL backend yet. It has to have some kind of abstraction layer already so that it can run on OSX (which doesn't provide GLX).
                        Surely there must be support for that when Mir lands. However, it's going to be interesting to follow the development the coming months. I don't have much insight in how everything comes together regarding GLX, DRI2, EGL and such, as i'm no programmer. But i can see why we need to ditch X, and as far as i understand by reading various articles Wayland & Mir should (at least in theory) provide nothing but improved performance.
                        Why did Canonical decide to go with Mir instead of Wayland, though? I think i read something way back that NVidia stated that they wouldn't support Wayland?

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by birdstream View Post
                          Surely there must be support for that when Mir lands. However, it's going to be interesting to follow the development the coming months. I don't have much insight in how everything comes together regarding GLX, DRI2, EGL and such, as i'm no programmer. But i can see why we need to ditch X, and as far as i understand by reading various articles Wayland & Mir should (at least in theory) provide nothing but improved performance.
                          Why did Canonical decide to go with Mir instead of Wayland, though? I think i read something way back that NVidia stated that they wouldn't support Wayland?
                          X is going to be around for a Long time at it's good for a lot of things and Nvidia has been working on EGL Drivers for years now all the way back to 2009 i think

                          Canonical decided to go with Mir was for 2 things one PR two Control if Developers only Develop for Mir this will allow them to kill off the competition do to Vendor lock-in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vendor_lock-in Canonical is the MS of Linux's "Embrace, extend, and exterminate"


                          "Longtime Linux kernel developer Matthew Garrett criticized choice of licensing for Canonical’s software projects, particularly Mir. Mir is licensed under GPLv3 – “an odd one” for “GPLv3-hostile markets” – but contributors are required to sign an agreement that “grants Canonical the right to relicense your contribution under their choice of license. This means that, despite not being the sole copyright holder, Canonical are free to relicense your code under a proprietary license.” He concludes that this creates asymmetry where “you end up with a situation that looks awfully like Canonical wanting to squash competition by making it impossible for anyone else to sell modified versions of Canonical’s software in the same market.”

                          Ubuntu for Android will most likely be Closed Source for commercial that means Preinstalled
                          http://phoronix.com/forums/showthrea...for-commercial

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by LinuxGamer View Post
                            X is going to be around for a Long time at it's good for a lot of things and Nvidia has been working on EGL Drivers for years now all the way back to 2009 i think

                            Canonical decided to go with Mir was for 2 things one PR two Control if Developers only Develop for Mir this will allow them to kill off the competition do to Vendor lock-in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vendor_lock-in Canonical is the MS of Linux's "Embrace, extend, and exterminate"


                            "Longtime Linux kernel developer Matthew Garrett criticized choice of licensing for Canonical’s software projects, particularly Mir. Mir is licensed under GPLv3 – “an odd one” for “GPLv3-hostile markets” – but contributors are required to sign an agreement that “grants Canonical the right to relicense your contribution under their choice of license. This means that, despite not being the sole copyright holder, Canonical are free to relicense your code under a proprietary license.” He concludes that this creates asymmetry where “you end up with a situation that looks awfully like Canonical wanting to squash competition by making it impossible for anyone else to sell modified versions of Canonical’s software in the same market.”

                            Ubuntu for Android will most likely be Closed Source for commercial that means Preinstalled
                            http://phoronix.com/forums/showthrea...for-commercial
                            Yeah I cannot say I really like where Canonical's heading, either.. But I still like Ubuntu as it is now and I guess we'll just have to see how things goes. I'll just stick to whatever works best for me, and don't screw up my gaming

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by birdstream View Post
                              Why did Canonical decide to go with Mir instead of Wayland, though? I think i read something way back that NVidia stated that they wouldn't support Wayland?
                              The reason why they decided to do that is not really known. Possibly ignorance, possibly lack of proper dialogue with the community, possibly in order to gain more influence and/or money... Maybe all of them combined.

                              And no, NVIDIA stated that they didn't support Wayland a few years back, because it wasn't ready yet. Currently there has been no information on whether they consider Wayland to be important enough to support or not. Also note that if they don't support Wayland, they don't support Mir either. And vice versa, if they support Wayland, they support Mir. It's only EGL that is needed for the support of both (there's one more extension that would be nice to have for Wayland, but that can be worked around in software).

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by birdstream View Post
                                Yeah I cannot say I really like where Canonical's heading, either.. But I still like Ubuntu as it is now and I guess we'll just have to see how things goes. I'll just stick to whatever works best for me, and don't screw up my gaming
                                i like The Ubuntu Project i just don't like Canonical at all and it's just sad they have power over a project like that and a lot of it's Developers Etc are on Canonical Payroll i say it's Best to use a Linux like Mint just to be on the safe side

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