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  • #76
    Originally posted by mrugiero View Post
    Some people seem to think computers are only used to play games or run a spreadsheet in your home.
    Well, it's their more widespread usage.
    Also, for instance in my school every computer is under Debian Wheezy (around 500 / 600 maybe?) and everyone is very happy.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by doom_Oo7 View Post
      Well, it's their more widespread usage.
      Also, for instance in my school every computer is under Debian Wheezy (around 500 / 600 maybe?) and everyone is very happy.
      But "widespread" is not necessarily a relevant metric for corporate interest.

      And yes debian is widely used in scholar/research environment. But still not Ubuntu, and still not buying many expensive rendering or computing cards.

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      • #78
        Wayland devs should just shut up and focus on proving their code is better. Winner takes all, now go and cry about it somewhere else and let's focus on the interesting thing which is XBMC running without an X server! When is input support coming? I want to run this ASAP

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        • #79
          Originally posted by mrugiero View Post
          You are partially wrong. It's a geek's war, yes, because non-geeks doesn't even know Wayland exists. You are right that more than two thirds of non-geek *home* Linux users are on Ubuntu, in fact, I'd rather say 99% are, with the other 1% being people whose a friend installed Fedora or OpenSUSE or Debian to. 'Consumers' is something far bigger than that. And most people who *work* with Linux (who, as far as we care, might use Windows or Mac on their homes) use RHEL or some other enterprise distro, which will probably use Wayland. And even when Steam doesn't give half a cow's shit about them, Nvidia and AMD does, and Intel, too.

          Some people seem to think computers are only used to play games or run a spreadsheet in your home.
          You don't seem to understand the difference between consumers and enterprise businesses. Enterprise is basically "office". There are even less enterprise users using Nvidia or AMD graphics than consumers.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by Scimmia View Post
            So many things wrong with this post, but I'll just point out the most glaring.

            AMD and Nvidia don't give a rat's ass about consumer Linux support. Enterprise Linux support is where they can actually make money, so that's what they care about.
            Nvidia and AMD don't make a dime on enterprise DESKTOP Linux. Maybe we should define enterprise desktop users before going on with this nonsense?

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Aleve Sicofante View Post
              You don't seem to understand the difference between consumers and enterprise businesses. Enterprise is basically "office". There are even less enterprise users using Nvidia or AMD graphics than consumers.
              No, for Linux "Enterprise" is basically servers and workstations. NVidia and AMD make pretty much all of their Linux profits from enterprise customers running workstations, both for graphics and high-performance computing.
              Last edited by TheBlackCat; 07-25-2013, 10:50 AM.

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              • #82
                Originally posted by Aleve Sicofante View Post
                Nvidia and AMD don't make a dime on enterprise DESKTOP Linux. Maybe we should define enterprise desktop users before going on with this nonsense?
                Nvidia and AMD don't make a dime on any desktop Linux, enterprise or home. They only make money with Linux on workstations and (for Nvidia) android. So there is no point trying to bring up desktop Linux with Nvidia or AMD at all, neither care and there is no indication they will any time soon.
                Last edited by TheBlackCat; 07-25-2013, 10:50 AM.

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by TheBlackCat View Post
                  No, for Linux "Enterprise" is basically servers and workstations. NVidia and AMD make pretty much all of their Linux profits from enterprise customers running workstations, both for graphics and high-performance computing.
                  Servers must be left out when talking about graphics.

                  Regarding workstations, are you serious? Do you really believe there are more Linux workstation users than, say, Linux Steam or XBMC users?

                  This is about Ubuntu choosing Mir and you come and talk about workstations????

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Aleve Sicofante View Post
                    Servers must be left out when talking about graphics.

                    Regarding workstations, are you serious? Do you really believe there are more Linux workstation users than, say, Linux Steam or XBMC users?

                    This is about Ubuntu choosing Mir and you come and talk about workstations????
                    in the Linux World workstations is how the big cash is made for AMD aka FirePro

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by TheBlackCat View Post
                      Nvidia and AMD don't make a dime on any desktop Linux, enterprise or home. They only make money with Linux on workstations and (for Nvidia) android. So there is no point trying to bring up desktop Linux with Nvidia or AMD at all, neither care and there is no indication they will any time soon.
                      Err... Workstations are desktop computers...

                      Both Steam and XBMC have far more Linux users than workstation software have. Wake up! Nvidia and AMD will provide their graphics to the most used desktop OS. In Linux that's Ubuntu, no contest. Wayland might be the darling of the infra-world, but here in the real world, when it comes to desktop Linux, no one cares about what happens outside Ubuntu at all. That includes Nvidia and AMD.

                      Come back to this thread in two years and see Wayland proprietary drivers (if they even exist) struggling behind Mir ones. Sure, the "bigger Linux desktop landscape" (the one in the infra-world) might suffer, but no one, including RedHat (who don't give a damn about desktops as they've publicly stated many times), cares.

                      Get over it, Ubuntu is the de-facto Linux desktop and whatever Ubuntu does is what anyone interested in Linux desktop COMMERCIALLY will follow.

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Aleve Sicofante View Post
                        Err... Workstations are desktop computers...

                        Both Steam and XBMC have far more Linux users than workstation software have. Wake up! Nvidia and AMD will provide their graphics to the most used desktop OS. In Linux that's Ubuntu, no contest. Wayland might be the darling of the infra-world, but here in the real world, when it comes to desktop Linux, no one cares about what happens outside Ubuntu at all. That includes Nvidia and AMD.

                        Come back to this thread in two years and see Wayland proprietary drivers (if they even exist) struggling behind Mir ones. Sure, the "bigger Linux desktop landscape" (the one in the infra-world) might suffer, but no one, including RedHat (who don't give a damn about desktops as they've publicly stated many times), cares.

                        Get over it, Ubuntu is the de-facto Linux desktop and whatever Ubuntu does is what anyone interested in Linux desktop COMMERCIALLY will follow.
                        Red hat and Opensuse SLES are the biggest distro on the workstation market. I think that wayland finally will win the battle, buf if the situation give the victory to mir, for me the use of ubuntu are less comfortable than windows 8 or mac osx, this will mean that I could'nt use linux anymore.

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by pandev92 View Post
                          Red hat and Opensuse SLES are the biggest distro on the workstation market.
                          The point -as if wasn't clear enough by now- is that the Linux workstation market is VERY SMALL, compared to both the Windows workstation market and the consumer Linux desktop market, IN ABSOLUTE NUMBERS (the Linux workstation market has probably a bigger market share in its segment, but the consumer market is orders of magnitude bigger than the workstation market).

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by LinuxGamer View Post
                            in the Linux World workstations is how the big cash is made for AMD aka FirePro
                            That market (Linux workstation desktops) is minuscule in absolute numbers. No "big cash" whatsoever. That "big cash" is made on Windows workstations. Both AMD and Nvidia make A LOT MORE MONEY on gaming cards than workstation cards. In spite of the price of workstation cards, the volume in consumer cards is orders of magnitude bigger.

                            EDIT: Some numbers: http://jonpeddie.com/publications/workstation_report/ (around 1 million workstation graphics card sold during first quarter, that probably means about 20 million consumer cards sold in the same period). http://www.anandtech.com/show/6137/t...eview-part-1/3, consumer cards make roughly three times as much money. The volume is probably about 20 times bigger for consumer cards. I haven't found any data yet about Linux market share in both markets, but you'll see that it's highly unlikely that Mir will be used outside the workstation market. Moreover, since the workstation market is mature and the consumer Linux market is just starting to grow (games), the picture couldn't look rosier for Mir, at the expense of Wayland.

                            EDIT2: More numbers: http://www.softpanorama.org/Articles...stations.shtml Funny enough, Ubuntu also reigns in the workstation market (three times as much as Fedora+Suse together...). Time to revise some myths?
                            Last edited by Aleve Sicofante; 07-25-2013, 12:26 PM.

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Aleve Sicofante View Post
                              Err... Workstations are desktop computers...

                              Both Steam and XBMC have far more Linux users than workstation software have. Wake up! Nvidia and AMD will provide their graphics to the most used desktop OS. In Linux that's Ubuntu, no contest. Wayland might be the darling of the infra-world, but here in the real world, when it comes to desktop Linux, no one cares about what happens outside Ubuntu at all. That includes Nvidia and AMD.

                              Come back to this thread in two years and see Wayland proprietary drivers (if they even exist) struggling behind Mir ones. Sure, the "bigger Linux desktop landscape" (the one in the infra-world) might suffer, but no one, including RedHat (who don't give a damn about desktops as they've publicly stated many times), cares.

                              Get over it, Ubuntu is the de-facto Linux desktop and whatever Ubuntu does is what anyone interested in Linux desktop COMMERCIALLY will follow.
                              the Linux Desktop is a joke and, from what i seen Ubuntu only has about 20% to 30% of Linux Users, if Nvidia and AMD Dropped desktop Linux and not the "Enterprise" desktop just the User desktop how bad do you thank it be for them if at all, now as for Phones and Junk Nvidia is a big player there

                              RedHat 100% Supports the "Enterprise" Linux desktop, and as a huge + from that we get to use most all of what RedHat has Developed for the "Enterprise" Linux desktop's

                              Canonical and RedHat don't have the same target at all (also Canonical wants to be Apple but can't we have a Apple)
                              Last edited by LinuxGamer; 07-25-2013, 12:12 PM.

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by LinuxGamer View Post
                                the Linux Desktop is a joke and, from what i seen Ubuntu only has about 20% to 30% of Linux Users, if Nvidia and AMD Dropped desktop Linux and not the "Enterprise" desktop just the User desktop how bad do you thank it be for them if at all, now as for Phones and Junk Nvidia is a big player there

                                RedHat 100% Supports the "Enterprise" Linux desktop, and as a huge + from that we get to use most all of what RedHat has Developed for the "Enterprise" Linux desktop's

                                Canonical and RedHat don't have the same target at all (also Canonical wants to be Apple but can't we have a Apple)
                                From "what you've seen"? Now THAT is a joke. Bring some sources. Check mine in the above edited post.
                                Last edited by Aleve Sicofante; 07-25-2013, 12:29 PM.

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