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  • #31
    Originally posted by jakubo View Post
    And as a company you need to tell investors that you have some kind of thing of your own that no one can change without your permission. they HAVE to do it.
    Red Hat seems to be doing just fine.

    Originally posted by jakubo View Post
    And stop being pissed off because others dont work the way you want. thats just so illeducated, self-righteous and intolerant!
    Pot, meet kettle.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by jakubo View Post
      this mir vs wayland stuff is getting on my nerves. is there no productive thing to say?
      Don't read it.

      I'd recommend to post your distrubution you use in your signature and tell again that different aproaches are wasted resources. I am pretty sure that there is more but ONE distribution. So it would seem those haters are not more than people agreeing there has to be one god but in the end forking for behavioural stuff. (Like one Display Server but still several DEs)
      by the way Martin Luther didnt want to fork the church. And as far as i know he didnt.
      Besides. Just think what the Linux Ecosystem would be like if Microsoft developers would all start joining linux-distributions. Do you write them hatemails too? ... for not supporting the right OS? F***ing overconfidence, eh?
      I don't give a flying furry about Martin Luther, churches can all burn for all I care. Anyway, it's apples and oranges. Several dozen DE's doesn't matter, there can be a 100 DE's, there can be a 1000 distros, and it doesn't matter because you can still run the same software in all of them. What real fragmentation is, that we'll end up getting A) software that runs on Ubuntu, and B) software that runs on Everything Else.

      And as said we will see if its that bad. Like unity wasnt loved at the beginning.
      And as a company you need to tell investors that you have some kind of thing of your own that no one can change without your permission. they HAVE to do it. And stop being pissed off because others dont work the way you want.
      They don't have to do it. Plenty of businesses make good money on open source software. Red Hat, for one.

      thats just so illeducated, self-righteous and intolerant! Pay them and then you'll get to judge their work and decisions.
      Ok, I just sent 0.000001 as a donation to Canonical. Now I get to judge their work and decisions. Problem?

      See, it doesn't work that way. We get to criticize the actions of others when those actions can have potentially harmful effects on other people. That's something guaranteed by freedom of speech, which is a fundamental human right. I'm of the opinion that Canonical's actions (regarding Mir) are harmful to the rest of the desktop Linux ecosystem, and I have the right to express that opinion and explain why I think that way. I don't have to pay Canonical to be allowed to criticize them.

      and when someone writes it "SEEMS" then because the thing he is gonna say may not be 100% correct and WILL BARE some subjective portion. there really is no need to put him down because he doesnt have the time and maybe technical understanding to read the mailing lists himself. You ready newspapers dont you? But you probably dont read them all, compare and ask victims and witnesses for first hand information (though asking people is hardly the most objective thing in the world...)
      And it is true, that there hasnt been much traffic on Phoronix over wayland just before Mir emerged.
      Being ignorant of the facts is one thing, but if you are then you shouldn't get pissed when someone educates you of those facts. And traffic on phoronix is not an indicator of actual development speed. Of course there's traffic about Mir/Wayland, it's a controversy. Controversies attract spectators.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by valeriodean View Post
        Just shut up. I'm tired to read that bunch of bullshit every time there is a thread on Mir/Wayland.

        Read more before write bullshit.
        Next time i will ask you.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by jakubo View Post
          this mir vs wayland stuff is getting on my nerves. is there no productive thing to say?
          first of all "thank you" to Sam Spilsbury.

          I'd recommend to post your distrubution you use in your signature and tell again that different aproaches are wasted resources. I am pretty sure that there is more but ONE distribution. So it would seem those haters are not more than people agreeing there has to be one god but in the end forking for behavioural stuff. (Like one Display Server but still several DEs)
          by the way Martin Luther didnt want to fork the church. And as far as i know he didnt.
          Besides. Just think what the Linux Ecosystem would be like if Microsoft developers would all start joining linux-distributions. Do you write them hatemails too? ... for not supporting the right OS? F***ing overconfidence, eh?

          And as said we will see if its that bad. Like unity wasnt loved at the beginning.
          And as a company you need to tell investors that you have some kind of thing of your own that no one can change without your permission. they HAVE to do it. And stop being pissed off because others dont work the way you want. thats just so illeducated, self-righteous and intolerant! Pay them and then you'll get to judge their work and decisions.

          and when someone writes it "SEEMS" then because the thing he is gonna say may not be 100% correct and WILL BARE some subjective portion. there really is no need to put him down because he doesnt have the time and maybe technical understanding to read the mailing lists himself. You ready newspapers dont you? But you probably dont read them all, compare and ask victims and witnesses for first hand information (though asking people is hardly the most objective thing in the world...)
          And it is true, that there hasnt been much traffic on Phoronix over wayland just before Mir emerged.
          Thank you.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Ericg View Post
            Yes, the steam client uses mostly the direct X libraries. But once SDL2 is finalized and released they should be rewriting the client for SDL2 (especially given the fact they hired and are paying the SDL2 writer to continue to write SDL2 instead of giving him something else)
            steam already uses libsdl2 but sadly it use some old gnome stuff like gdkpixbuff.

            Comment


            • #36
              Staggering amounts of stupidity shown by Ubuntu Fanboys on this thread. Yeah let's compare different display servers to having multiple e-mail clients.
              OUCH!

              Comment


              • #37
                What utter and complete waste of resources... See now why Mir only bring harm? Fragmentation and distraction.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by CrvenaZvezda View Post
                  What utter and complete waste of resources... See now why Mir only bring harm? Fragmentation and distraction.
                  Not sure if serious.

                  Last edited by Nille; 07-24-2013, 10:13 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain - most fools do.

                    Benjamin Franklin

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by verde View Post
                      I think Canonical is affraid to say public that Wayland is not viable for them. probably for technical reasons.
                      Reminder: The Mir hate train was kickstarted by the "wayland sucks" document they pretty much attached to their announcement. That was a technical argument that wayland sucked and mir was better, and it turned out to just be a battery of misunderstandings by Canonical people on how Wayland works or what Wayland is. If they were afraid as you suggest, this wouldn't have happened at all.
                      Last edited by rvalles; 07-24-2013, 10:47 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by rvalles View Post
                        Reminder: The Mir hate train was kickstarted by the "wayland sucks" document they pretty much attached to their announcement. That was a technical argument that wayland sucked and mir was better, and it turned out to just be a battery of misunderstandings by Canonical people on how Wayland works or what Wayland is. If they were afraid as you suggest, this wouldn't have happened at all.
                        No, it were just the person writing the wikipage that didn't have everything under control.
                        Here is a blog post by a developer knowing what he's talking about and why Mir would have been
                        unsuited for Canonical. http://blog.cooperteam.net/2013/03/for-posterity.html
                        Also read later post of him if you are interested. They explain some architectural differences between Mir and Wayland
                        and why Canonical have chosen those.

                        But there are also one more big thing. Look at previous development by Canonical. It fast and may change direction
                        over one night. Look at Wayland development: It's better planned (and therefore slower) and lays much more energy
                        on having it right at the first time. If Canonical had sticked to Wayland I can guarantee that there would have been
                        much energy between Canonical and Wayland developers and probably resulting in a fork sooner or later.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by verde View Post
                          Fantastic job. It seems that porting an application to Wayland AND Mir is not that hard. So there is no reason for community civil war in the end. It would be nice if they have a healthy competition like OpenOffice/LibreOffice have, that will push both projects to a better and better state. Already Wayland project seemS to have accelerated since Mir announced.
                          Yeah, but people love drama so much that you will probably continue to see absurd FUD posted about both for years to come.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Pajn View Post
                            No, it were just the person writing the wikipage that didn't have everything under control.
                            Here is a blog post by a developer knowing what he's talking about and why Mir would have been
                            unsuited for Canonical. http://blog.cooperteam.net/2013/03/for-posterity.html
                            Also read later post of him if you are interested. They explain some architectural differences between Mir and Wayland
                            and why Canonical have chosen those.
                            None of those reasons are valid. For example, he admits he was wrong about the input stack, which could have been avoided just by talking to the Wayland devs (which they never did). Similarly, writing server-side buffer allocation in Wayland is trivial (there are already proof-of-concept version), and is much easier than starting over from scratch. Similarly, anything that they needed to do differently could have been done in extensions.

                            So no, they still have not provided any valid reason why Wayland is unsuitable. All of their reasons are either false, or would have taken much less work to do within Wayland than starting over completely from scratch.

                            Originally posted by Pajn View Post
                            But there are also one more big thing. Look at previous development by Canonical. It fast and may change direction
                            over one night. Look at Wayland development: It's better planned (and therefore slower) and lays much more energy
                            on having it right at the first time. If Canonical had sticked to Wayland I can guarantee that there would have been
                            much energy between Canonical and Wayland developers and probably resulting in a fork sooner or later.
                            First, that assumes Mir will be done before Wayland has implemented the missing parts Canonical needs. This is far from certain.

                            Even if it was true, that is why Wayland supports extensions. Canonical could have written their own extensions for Wayland that did things quickly and dirty, then ported away from them (or not) when Wayland devs got better implementations in the official protocol. No fork would have been needed, just extensions.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Nille View Post
                              Not sure if serious.
                              Oh, I'm serious. I personally see Mark Shuttelworth as the heir to Miguel De Icaza as the prominent leader for divide and rule in FLOSS. All Canonical is bringing to the table is fragmentation.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by jayrulez View Post
                                Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain - most fools do.

                                Benjamin Franklin
                                Yeah! Like the Suffragettes, the Solidarność, like the women in The March on Versailles, this old guy Mandela who spent many years on Robben Island and the Boston Tea Party participants. Fools all of them! Why did they ever bother complaining...

                                Comment

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