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  • Originally posted by synaptix View Post
    This is true since Unity came around, but what was meant is if Ubuntu had a total and complete failure to the point of both Ubuntu and Canonical being defunct status. Some would probably go pure Debian while I would guess a lot would go join LM and use their LMDE edition.
    If Debian get off it's ass and release some up to date package's on release day ill use it but atm Debian 7.1 is so far out of date it's not funny what do you get out of it 2 or 3 year old package's, the LTS Kernal is the only part not out of date, i'm using Linux Mint here, but i want to see Debian stop being so far out of date it's not funny, maybe if it did like openSUSE on it's EOL's and Releases i use it, openSUSE has what kernal 3.7 and updated package's, and you get support for around 15mo's, i can remember

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    • Originally posted by LinuxGamer View Post
      If Debian get off it's ass and release some up to date package's on release day ill use it but atm Debian 7.1 is so far out of date it's not funny what do you get out of it 2 or 3 year old package's, the LTS Kernal is the only part not out of date, i'm using Linux Mint here, but i want to see Debian stop being so far out of date it's not funny, maybe if it did like openSUSE on it's EOL's and Releases i use it, openSUSE has what kernal 3.7 and updated package's, and you get support for around 15mo's, i can remember

      Xubuntu user here and I agree, that is one thing I don't like about Debian. I'm kind of person that likes having the very latest (currently running Xubuntu 13.10 dev release). Also find things easier to do through Ubuntu than directly through Debian, as I have tried LMDE in the past and it confused the hell out of me for some reason. xD

      Comment


      • Originally posted by synaptix View Post
        Xubuntu user here and I agree, that is one thing I don't like about Debian. I'm kind of person that likes having the very latest (currently running Xubuntu 13.10 dev release). Also find things easier to do through Ubuntu than directly through Debian, as I have tried LMDE in the past and it confused the hell out of me for some reason. xD
        i just want the most stable latest OS i can find, Debian also need's to add non free to it's main repo's as well

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        • Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
          What you haters don't understand is that for most people Ubuntu == Linux.
          So now when I ask you to back up your claims I am a hater? That is really an astonishing discussion technique, one could think you are Bill O'Reilly.
          Ubuntu has become too big to fail. If it fails it takes everybody down with it.
          For sure, Red Hat will go down when Ubuntu fails. Suse will do the same, you say? And Slackware, a distro existing for 20 years now, without using Canonical technology? Wow, just wow.
          So you should actually learn to support Mir and all the devs focus on it especially since it moves so fast and leave Wayland for later.
          Without Wayland they wouldn't even have XMir, so how fast is it again? Maybe tomorrow I fork GCC and claim that everybody should support me, because I have created a compiler with the feature set of GCC in one day, moving so fast. The only difference to Mir/XMir would be that my fork actually would work.
          Linux on the desktop is where it is due to Ubuntu.
          I have seen you make this claim before and asked you to back that up with actual data. Do you think that you can do it this time? I seriously doubt it, since backing up claims seems not to be part of your discussion technique, but I ask anyways.
          Everybody should actually help them since most Linux users are Ubuntu users.
          Wait, does this mean that you have factual data on that and that that data tells us that Ubuntu has more than 50% marketshare in the Linux space? Would you like to show us that data? Oh, wait, I forgot that you don't do such things.
          If Ubuntu dies everybody moves back to Windows and Linux will go back to basement dwellers, their dogs and Richard Stallman the loser weirdo who said that Ubuntu is bad and the community should teach them a lesson. It is the opposite in fact, Richard Stallman and his loser friends need to shut up and go to their corner. They've had their time. All they got was a shitty 1% of the market. Now fuck those jokers and let's try something else!
          Wait, didn't you just state that Linux on the desktop is where it is because of Ubuntu? Now you attribute that to Stallmann?
          Do you understand that by sabotaging Canonical you are actually sabotaging yourselves? Even you Gentoo users! Linux benefits from having many users.
          Wheren't you the one who stated that supporting Canonical is the right thing to do so that all other distros can die? Now you say the exact opposite, not supporting Ubuntu will harm the other distros? May it be that you today do not know anymore about your arguments from yesterday?
          Do you want it to wither all away, all that was gained so hard and for so much toil? Your rebellion against Canonical will come back to bite your asses. In fact it will chew you whole. So the only option for now is to support Canonical, even if you don't agree with all their decisions. Their success will trickle down to lesser used distros.
          Again, do you mean those distros that in your opinion shouldn't even exist? Now they suddenly will benefit from Canonical?
          Canonical is basically like the American banks in 2008.
          You mean like: They brought themselves down with their shitty decisions and now those that do the actual work have to pay for that? Thank Bob that it is not to late, yet, those that really support Linux and bring it forward are not Canonical developers, but developers from Red Hat, Intel, IBM and others, those who actually make money of Linux, not some rich clown dreaming of being the next Steve Jobs.

          I only can ask you again, although you won't even consider to do it: Back up your claims or GTFO.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
            May I suggest Windows? No need to upgrade every 6 fucking months... and have to relearn stuff because the designer thought they were smart...
            Is Microsoft paying you by any chance?

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            • Originally posted by LinuxGamer View Post
              If Debian get off it's ass and release some up to date package's on release day ill use it but atm Debian 7.1 is so far out of date it's not funny what do you get out of it 2 or 3 year old package's, the LTS Kernal is the only part not out of date, i'm using Linux Mint here, but i want to see Debian stop being so far out of date it's not funny, maybe if it did like openSUSE on it's EOL's and Releases i use it, openSUSE has what kernal 3.7 and updated package's, and you get support for around 15mo's, i can remember
              No thanks, I rather have my Debian servers in a well tested state than giving away stability for bleeding edge. If you want newer packages use Debian Sid or Testing, you are using it anyway when you are using Ubuntu or Mint.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by synaptix View Post
                But Ubuntu != Linux, Linux = Linux. Ubuntu = GNU/Linux. Also if Ubuntu fails, Linux Mint would defintely pick up a lot of the slack, since they have an edition based directly off Debian cutting out Ubuntu from the mix.
                What it is doesn't matter here, but the general public perception, and that is Ubuntu==Linux.
                And a lot of Ubuntu users will not try another distro even if it came with cookies.

                Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                What you haters don't understand is that for most people Ubuntu == Linux. Ubuntu has become too big to fail. If it fails it takes everybody down with it. So you should actually learn to support Mir and all the devs focus on it especially since it moves so fast and leave Wayland for later. Linux on the desktop is where it is due to Ubuntu. Everybody should actually help them since most Linux users are Ubuntu users. If Ubuntu dies everybody moves back to Windows and Linux will go back to basement dwellers, their dogs and Richard Stallman the loser weirdo who said that Ubuntu is bad and the community should teach them a lesson. It is the opposite in fact, Richard Stallman and his loser friends need to shut up and go to their corner. They've had their time. All they got was a shitty 1% of the market. Now fuck those jokers and let's try something else!
                I agree in some points. If Ubuntu falls, it's very likely most of the non-enterprise desktop will fall with them, since the general perception is actually Ubuntu==Linux. However, that doesn't make it less prone to fail. Mir might be a good solution, and time will tell. But XMir is a crap one. And a crap solution in the distro most people think Linux is means a huge chance that a lot of users will go back to Windows, as simple as that. They won't consider other distros, because even when most people know there are a lot, most people also think Ubuntu is the best and easiest one, and if that becomes shitty then it must means everyone became shitty. On the other hand, the only side where that fall is likely to affect the remaining users is in gaming. All of the rest of development is still needed by enterprise users, and those are the ones who pay for things on the Linux desktop. Wayland, checked. Drivers, checked, we had closed drivers before Ubuntu even existed. Desktops, checked. Most of Ubuntu users (not all of them), specially the ones likely to switch back to Windows put zero money to fund it and have near zero technical knowledge, so the only loss they represent is market share (that's why it will affect to porting games).
                Do you understand that by sabotaging Canonical you are actually sabotaging yourselves? Even you Gentoo users! Linux benefits from having many users. Do you want it to wither all away, all that was gained so hard and for so much toil? Your rebellion against Canonical will come back to bite your asses. In fact it will chew you whole. So the only option for now is to support Canonical, even if you don't agree with all their decisions. Their success will trickle down to lesser used distros. Canonical winning will actually help improve the whole Linux community. Canonical is basically like the American banks in 2008. You bail them out or else....
                However, nobody is trying to sabotage Canonical, the ones sabotaging them are themselves. If they shoot themselves in the foot, as a user, tester and promoter of Ubuntu, I must point it out before it's too late and hope they hear.

                Originally posted by synaptix View Post
                Xubuntu user here and I agree, that is one thing I don't like about Debian. I'm kind of person that likes having the very latest (currently running Xubuntu 13.10 dev release). Also find things easier to do through Ubuntu than directly through Debian, as I have tried LMDE in the past and it confused the hell out of me for some reason. xD
                I'm on Xubuntu, too, and I wonder what is easier than Debian. Can you give me an example?
                Everytime I needed/wanted to do something remotely advanced I had to check Debian's wiki.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                  May I suggest Windows? No need to upgrade every 6 fucking months... and have to relearn stuff because the designer thought they were smart...
                  Then why do you use Ubuntu?
                  Debian doesn't update every six months, but Ubuntu does.
                  Debian doesn't change things often, but Ubuntu does, as we are discussing one of those changes here.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                    May I suggest Windows? No need to upgrade every 6 fucking months... and have to relearn stuff because the designer thought they were smart...
                    Also if you go with LTS release, you only need to upgrade every 2 years minimum.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                      What you haters don't understand is that for most people Ubuntu == Linux. Ubuntu has become too big to fail. If it fails it takes everybody down with it. So you should actually learn to support Mir and all the devs focus on it especially since it moves so fast and leave Wayland for later. Linux on the desktop is where it is due to Ubuntu. Everybody should actually help them since most Linux users are Ubuntu users. If Ubuntu dies everybody moves back to Windows and Linux will go back to basement dwellers, their dogs and Richard Stallman the loser weirdo who said that Ubuntu is bad and the community should teach them a lesson. It is the opposite in fact, Richard Stallman and his loser friends need to shut up and go to their corner. They've had their time. All they got was a shitty 1% of the market. Now fuck those jokers and let's try something else!

                      Do you understand that by sabotaging Canonical you are actually sabotaging yourselves? Even you Gentoo users! Linux benefits from having many users. Do you want it to wither all away, all that was gained so hard and for so much toil? Your rebellion against Canonical will come back to bite your asses. In fact it will chew you whole. So the only option for now is to support Canonical, even if you don't agree with all their decisions. Their success will trickle down to lesser used distros. Canonical winning will actually help improve the whole Linux community. Canonical is basically like the American banks in 2008. You bail them out or else....
                      Oh bozley... If I didn't know you better I'd think you were trolling. Every sentence in this post reads like a purposeful troll. You've got it all there - emotional arguments that you have no intention of ever backing up, logical fallacies, exaggerations and lies, brickwalling...

                      Sadly, I'm starting to believe this is actually what you think. That you're really such a simpleton that you actually believe what you write. I've actually debated christian fundamentalists who believe the earth was literally made 6000 years ago (radiocarbon dating is a liberal conspiracy, dontcha know) who've made more sense than you are currently making.

                      I'm sad, boz. Please say it ain't so. It's fun to bash trolls, but when you start to think you're actually arguing with an idiot, it just becomes sad... kind of like shooting fish in a barrel.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                        What you haters don't understand is that for most people Ubuntu == Linux. Ubuntu has become too big to fail. If it fails it takes everybody down with it. So you should actually learn to support Mir and all the devs focus on it especially since it moves so fast and leave Wayland for later. Linux on the desktop is where it is due to Ubuntu. Everybody should actually help them since most Linux users are Ubuntu users. If Ubuntu dies everybody moves back to Windows and Linux will go back to basement dwellers, their dogs and Richard Stallman the loser weirdo who said that Ubuntu is bad and the community should teach them a lesson. It is the opposite in fact, Richard Stallman and his loser friends need to shut up and go to their corner. They've had their time. All they got was a shitty 1% of the market. Now fuck those jokers and let's try something else!

                        Do you understand that by sabotaging Canonical you are actually sabotaging yourselves? Even you Gentoo users! Linux benefits from having many users. Do you want it to wither all away, all that was gained so hard and for so much toil? Your rebellion against Canonical will come back to bite your asses. In fact it will chew you whole. So the only option for now is to support Canonical, even if you don't agree with all their decisions. Their success will trickle down to lesser used distros. Canonical winning will actually help improve the whole Linux community. Canonical is basically like the American banks in 2008. You bail them out or else....
                        I hope Ubuntu is successful too but I think they've been going in the wrong direction lately.

                        JMO of course.

                        Though it seems a lot in Linux is going backwards to me. I dunno. There's more ego than functional work it seems like.

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                        • I found something old:

                          http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/551

                          *coughs*

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                          • Oh, I remember that post. This part particularly makes me lol:

                            Originally posted by Mark Shuttleworth
                            We considered and spoke with several proprietary options, on the basis that they might be persuaded to open source their work for a new push, and we evaluated the cost of building a new display manager, informed by the lessons learned in Wayland. We came to the conclusion that any such effort would only create a hard split in the world which wasn’t worth the cost of having done it. There are issues with Wayland, but they seem to be solvable, we’d rather be part of solving them than chasing a better alternative. So Wayland it is.
                            What happened, Mark? Did your microsoft partners pay you to mess up the Linux desktop? Maybe...

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by mrugiero View Post
                              I agree in some points. If Ubuntu falls, it's very likely most of the non-enterprise desktop will fall with them, since the general perception is actually Ubuntu==Linux. However, that doesn't make it less prone to fail.
                              Nah, another distribution will take Ubuntu place in non-enterprise desktop. The very reason of Ubuntu success is Mark Shuttleworth himself.
                              Canonical cannibalized the already existing marketshare from Mandriva to Mepis through PR, they only care about themselves from day 1.
                              Frankly, the latest Mir/XMir saga should be hardly surprising given Canonical history.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by finalzone View Post
                                Nah, another distribution will take Ubuntu place in non-enterprise desktop. The very reason of Ubuntu success is Mark Shuttleworth himself.
                                Canonical cannibalized the already existing marketshare from Mandriva to Mepis through PR, they only care about themselves from day 1.
                                Frankly, the latest Mir/XMir saga should be hardly surprising given Canonical history.
                                I know a lot more people that switched from Windows to Ubuntu than I've ever met who used Madriva (I only met one person, who actually used Mandrake, back in ~2000 or maybe a few years later). Those I know, two out of three are not likely to try a different distro, and the remaining will ask me for help in choosing a new one. Then, I know just ONE Linux user that doesn't use an Ubuntu flavor, a friend of mine who uses Arch and is likely to be consulted, too. I think I'll recommend Fedora or Mint if someone asks me for another option.

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