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XWayland 2D Performance Appears Better Than XMir

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  • #16
    wayland?

    wayland?? wayland continued not working, they never finish it...

    we waiting for 5 years!! and i see we need to wait another 5...

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    • #17
      i love how the biggest argument against wayland is that it took 5 years for it to not even be ready yet. except if you ever actualy followed any discussion about wayland, it always ended in "we can have it do this, and that is worlds better than what we currently do now with X, all we have to do is entirely rearange this subsystem, and oh ya, its a change thats outside of the display server so it can actualy benifit current X as well" and thats why wayland takes so long, its a compleate rewrite of the entire graphics stack and arcitecture, at the same time we are changing it to accomodate hardware thats not just whatever intel or amd or nvidia puts out, and its often the same people that are writing wayland that are also responible for core kernel, mesa, and graphics drivers, both closed and open source changes that are needed to make it all work. and, this entire time there is collaborating with embedded people and google andorid to try and unify much of the work that has been done between the two worlds.


      so guess what, if you just come and copy/past the source code and rename it something else, your development timer really doesnt get to restart at 0.

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      • #18
        I don't get the point in benchmarking both when they are both missing important stuff, I would call the benchmarks pointless now. Sure when they are feature complete benchmark them but not now.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by chrisb View Post
          Good point. What I don't understand is why Ubuntu isn't going straight to Unity on Mir? I was under the impression that it was running fine, so why bother with xmir? (No troll replies please)
          Well, one can assume that they want all flavors of ubuntu be able to coexists, so if you are running mir unity, but you want to switch into the xfce desktop you could logout into lightdm and from the lightdm menu choose xubuntu session that will start normally from the lightdm set to run under Mir due to XMir been able to run a full desktop environment.

          In any case the tests presented on this article kind of prove that XMir is more advanced than XWayland (since XMir can run 3D applications and some more tests than XWayland can't do), the canonical developers just need to iron out the performance issues that they seem to be already aware of.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by TheOne View Post
            Well, one can assume that they want all flavors of ubuntu be able to coexists, so if you are running mir unity, but you want to switch into the xfce desktop you could logout into lightdm and from the lightdm menu choose xubuntu session that will start normally from the lightdm set to run under Mir due to XMir been able to run a full desktop environment.

            In any case the tests presented on this article kind of prove that XMir is more advanced than XWayland (since XMir can run 3D applications and some more tests than XWayland can't do), the canonical developers just need to iron out the performance issues that they seem to be already aware of.
            According to this old post:
            http://phoronix.com/forums/showthrea...-tips-problems
            3D acceleration is working.
            Reading this post it seems that Wayland is more difficult to configure for now. But for sure in a year it will be easier to test (I heard gentoo planned to do packages to enable users to use Weston for example )

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Andrecorreia View Post
              wayland?? wayland continued not working, they never finish it...

              we waiting for 5 years!! and i see we need to wait another 5...
              The way I see it, it's a good think they take their time. When dealing with projects and project management, there are several triangles that tries to teach that you can't get everything. Take fast (as in development time), cheap and good. You can never have all three of them. You can develop
              • something quickly and with high quality, but it won't be cheap
              • something quickly and cheap, but it won't be high quality
              • something of high quality and cheap, but it will take time.

              The way I see it, Canonical is doing it quickly, meaning they've had to compromise on either quality or cost. As you point out, Wayland, on the other hand, is taking it's time. This may indicate that it's a high quality and cheap way of developing. Just saying

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Andrecorreia View Post
                wayland?? wayland continued not working, they never finish it...

                we waiting for 5 years!! and i see we need to wait another 5...
                Ummm no... you wait till next year when KDE will most likely ship KDE5, you wait till (i think) later this year when Enlightenment will ship E18, and you wait a release or two for Gnome to handle any GTK3 issues...

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by mannerov View Post
                  According to this old post:
                  http://phoronix.com/forums/showthrea...-tips-problems
                  3D acceleration is working.
                  Reading this post it seems that Wayland is more difficult to configure for now. But for sure in a year it will be easier to test (I heard gentoo planned to do packages to enable users to use Weston for example )
                  If you want to test just WAYLAND, then all you need is the Arch wiki: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Wayland

                  If you want to test XWayland, then things get more complicated since you have to patch the X server. As soon as XWayland gets merged into the X Server, things become a lot easier.

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                  • #24
                    I digress

                    Originally posted by AHSauge View Post
                    The way I see it, it's a good think they take their time. When dealing with projects and project management, there are several triangles that tries to teach that you can't get everything. Take fast (as in development time), cheap and good. You can never have all three of them. You can develop
                    • something quickly and with high quality, but it won't be cheap
                    • something quickly and cheap, but it won't be high quality
                    • something of high quality and cheap, but it will take time.

                    The way I see it, Canonical is doing it quickly, meaning they've had to compromise on either quality or cost. As you point out, Wayland, on the other hand, is taking it's time. This may indicate that it's a high quality and cheap way of developing. Just saying
                    There's a major flaw with that list. The man-hour myth. Quickly and High Quality is not possible. It doesn't matter how much money is thrown at it. Mir is going to show us that.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Ericg View Post
                      If you want to test just WAYLAND, then all you need is the Arch wiki: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Wayland

                      If you want to test XWayland, then things get more complicated since you have to patch the X server. As soon as XWayland gets merged into the X Server, things become a lot easier.
                      Well there is xwayland-git on the AUR which replaces your installed xorg-server and xorg-server-common package. Have not tried it out.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by ickle View Post
                        Sadly the benchmarks were performed on a Ironlake (i3) CPU/GPU with IPS. As you can see the results with IPS are very unstable, the GPU is up/down clocked over a period of about 2 minutes and can vary in performance by about a factor of 2, along with side-effects from the CPU/memory clocks being independently controlled by the CPU C-states (and cpufreq). Along with the silliness of benchmarking with UXA, I'd take these benchmarks with a large grain of salt and would be very careful not to draw any conclusions about X vs Xwayland [vs Xmir].
                        Yea, at the very least we need to see a test where all three (X, XWayland, XMir) are tested at once, on the same hardware and doing the same tests.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by blackout23 View Post
                          Well there is xwayland-git on the AUR which replaces your installed xorg-server and xorg-server-common package. Have not tried it out.
                          Nor have I, and I've stopped running Arch on my laptop due to the upcoming LUKS changes

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by PsynoKhi0 View Post
                            And how is that any worse than bashing Canonical based on preliminary results from a few benchmarks of development snapshots?
                            I'm going to agree with Anarchy: drawing such bold conclusions regarding the superiority of one or another at this point is silly.
                            I wish both technologies the best and I'll make up my mind once I've run both on my computer.
                            The point is they are building hype even though their product is not even finished yet and it won't be fast enough. What i hate is the fact they get a lot of attention from ubuntu users who don't care about fragmentation or anything else. What's up with all these phoronix Mir hype "news" like every damn day?

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by phoen1x View Post
                              The point is they are building hype even though their product is not even finished yet and it won't be fast enough. What i hate is the fact they get a lot of attention from ubuntu users who don't care about fragmentation or anything else. What's up with all these phoronix Mir hype "news" like every damn day?
                              Why on earth would you bash someone for REPLACING X.org??? ??? ???

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by przemoli View Post
                                Why on earth would you bash someone for REPLACING X.org??? ??? ???
                                Because we HAVE a replacement, its Wayland. Canonical just made MIR because their corporate interests demand that they have sole and absolute control over their entire stack. I'm seriously waiting for Ubuntu to become the new Android-- custom kernel, custom userspace, custom API's, that just resyncs with upstream once a year or once every 2 years.

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