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The First Benchmarks Of Unity On XMir: There's A Performance Hit

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  • Originally posted by intellivision View Post
    It sounds like you have more of an issue with copyright assignment than the license itself.
    While I admit CA isn't the best solution, it does assist a project to change licenses if they feel the desire to.
    For instance, VLC had to remove code from libvlc since they wanted to relicense it as LGPL, but they couldn't contact a contributor who's code was under the GPL.
    They eventually changed the license, but the process took months to do. And some projects are so large, such as Linux and Wordpress, that even if desired the license cannot be changed.
    And Canonical isn't the only organisation that does this. OwnCloud, Cunity, Diaspora*, Apache and software from the FSF all require CA's or your contribution has to be under a permissive license such as MIT for specifically the issue of license changes.
    And I'm sure that with CA you don't relinquish your rights over your code, you just give a copy of your rights to someone else.
    To use a proprietary Mir as an example, there would be nothing stopping you from banding together with the other Mir developers, pooling your code together and creating a FOSS competitor.
    Well, if the problem is license changes, you could just use MIT. I don't think anyone has any problem with that, or else they wouldn't support Wayland or X.org either. Rather, the problem is that Canonical can relicense without consulting anyone (again, this doesn't keep the GPL version from staying there, and in fact they must keep a GPL version of any code that was contributed under the CLA), and everyone else can not (except, as you said, they form this pool, but it's hard to contact all contributors, let alone all agreeing on the same thing at the same time, and in fact it wouldn't be "without consulting anyone"), because it's GPL and it doesn't allow relicensing. The only possible disadvantage I see is it's far from giving equal rights to all of the stakeholders, but I really see nothing that hurts the community on this, since what the community gets benefited the most is not from the right to make closed source derivatives but from open source contributions.

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    • I've been quite surprised reading this and the other 2 Mir threads in the last couple of days. Either Canonical's bull works and people think the whole making XMir default is actually a sign of progress or BOSS has created 3-4 more accounts to do his regular work while his main account tests the limits of absurdity.

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      • Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
        So in order to make sure they get it right we will probably have Wayland ready somewhere around 2050. Or 2100 to get it REAALLY right.



        One word: Freedom. They can do it. They can fork the entire linux kernel and create their own OS and create the greatest marketing campaign on Earth and sell it and become more successful than all the distros combined.



        It's been 95% done for a couple of years now. That Weston genius from what I heard had trouble with the minimize button. As in they didn't have it. Brilliant reference implementation. Everything in Wayland is a sad joke and free software hipsters won't see it because they think Canonical == Evil while Wayland == Good. Mir is already the future. And it's already here. Wake up people!

        One word: freedom. Because they can. They can fork the whole kernel and create their own modified version and then create the coolest marketing campaign on Earth and wipe the floor with all the other distros.

        Great post , agreed with most of it...

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        • Originally posted by dee. View Post
          So, even Unity will lose performance when running on XMir vs. running on straight Xorg - and Mir was built for Unity. Why should any other distro use XMir again?

          (also, it's cute how the fanbois are already making excuses... "it's still early days!" "it's not that bad a hit, only 10%!" well, when that 10% hit brings no additional benefit, what reason is there to take that hit...)
          Uh, you do realize that's a valid excuse, right? When software is in alpha, the most important thing is making it work. Making it work fast comes afterwards. I've seen it happen with a bunch of projects (open source graphics drivers, webM, webGL...)

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          • Originally posted by TheOne View Post
            Pretty true, people is exaggerating things up. As some one else said FPS means frames per second, so a 1 second lag means 1 frame per second.[/url]
            No, that's not what it means. Lag in this context most probably means the amount of time it takes for the image to show up on the screen after it's been rendered.

            You could, for example, have 10,000 FPS in glxgears and still have it display on your screen a second late. That's what it means.

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            • Originally posted by intellivision View Post
              It sounds like you have more of an issue with copyright assignment than the license itself.
              I don't. My post wasn't pro or against Mir, just about licenses and copyright.
              I'm personally fine with any project having any license it wishes, it's not like anyone forces anybody to contribute.

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              • Originally posted by meklu View Post
                No, that's not what it means. Lag in this context most probably means the amount of time it takes for the image to show up on the screen after it's been rendered.

                You could, for example, have 10,000 FPS in glxgears and still have it display on your screen a second late. That's what it means.
                True, it is a term used widely on the gaming world to indicate that network data transportation/latency is out of sync or behind what it should be.

                On this case we are talking about graphical lag, how can you notice the underlying system is lagging or behind by 1 second without a tool to measure it? Which part on the video showing XMir running the desktop environments we see the mouse pointer or some other component stop responding for 1 second?

                In any case here is the video which some guys are saying has a 1 second lag (also some one else said 30% fps drop means 1 second lag).
                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8h0m-ZjPxe8

                On a side note: maybe the guy that said he saw 1 second lag didn't noticed that what lagged was his flash player
                Last edited by TheOne; 06-29-2013, 09:15 AM.

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                • Originally posted by Darxus View Post
                  spacetoilet, mrugiero, dee., please don't feed the troll. Just click the Report Post "!" link at the bottom left of the post. Relevant posts deleted.
                  A bit off-topic, but it really bothers me how Michael stopped maintaining custom user titles. You don't have any, other important people don't have any, some have wrong or outdated titles, etc. It makes it hard to know who is who.

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                  • Originally posted by TheOne View Post
                    True, it is a term used widely on the gaming world to indicate that network data transportation/latency is out of sync or behind what it should be.

                    On this case we are talking about graphical lag, how can you notice the underlying system is lagging or behind by 1 second without a tool to measure it? Which part on the video showing XMir running the desktop environments we see the mouse pointer or some other component stop responding for 1 second?

                    In any case here is the video which some guys are saying has a 1 second lag (also some one else said 30% fps drop means 1 second lag).
                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8h0m-ZjPxe8

                    On a side note: maybe the guy that said he saw 1 second lag didn't noticed that what lagged was his flash player
                    I just noticed something that might come as a lag if you assume a mouse gesture is used. When blender is opened in Unity and it zooms in and out, one second before that happens the pointer goes down. I think whoever said there was lag assumed that the pointer going down was a mouse gesture to zoom in, while it's probably done with the scroll wheel, and such order might have been given after the pointer went down.
                    Otherwise, I have no idea how can he know of any lag, since he doesn't see when the input is done.

                    Originally posted by DaVince View Post
                    Uh, you do realize that's a valid excuse, right? When software is in alpha, the most important thing is making it work. Making it work fast comes afterwards. I've seen it happen with a bunch of projects (open source graphics drivers, webM, webGL...)
                    Even when you are right about it, and .dee is wrong in his statement that "it's designed for Unity" (is true for Mir, but it's running on XMir, and X wasn't designed with Unity in mind), they better take it out of alpha fast, since they expect it to be in production use (which means it need to go through beta and realease candidates) in 13.10. Also, is not a valid excuse to run a desktop on XMir. Mir might have benefits. XMir have them for particular apps. XMir doesn't provide none of those when running all of your desktop on it. And as all software, it's bug surface, and you are making that bigger by putting an unneeded, non-feature providing, extra layer.

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