Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Mir 0.0.5 Released; Kubuntu Will Stick To X/Wayland

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by intellivision View Post
    I'd doubt that even if there were a reason, you would be at all inclined to listen to it.
    Ah, nice dodge. So what you're saying is, there is no technical reason for Mir to exist. Good.

    That's because you're a fanboy through and through, you don't care about projects that you don't like.
    A fanboy of what, pray tell? The definition of "fanboy" is someone who irrationally follows something and willingly ignores it's flaws, blinding themself to facts that contradict their viewpoint to do so. I do none of that. I've been presenting countless actual arguments why Mir is a bad idea, ranging from technical reasons to reasons having to do with the overall benefit of the desktop Linux ecosystem. None of the Mir fanboys have presented any real arguments, apart from strawmen and ad-hominem attacks (kind of like you're doing now).

    And considering the lack of spelling, grammar and capitalisation, I'd add angsty teenager to the mix too.
    Oh, I get it. Mir is needed because of my grammar. Gotcha. That makes sense...

    For your information, english is not my first language, so I may not know all the grammar rules exactly. I do use capitalization and spell words correctly, unless it's by mistake/typo. And in fact I haven't been a teenager in over 10 years. Whether I'm "angsty" is debatable and a matter of perspective, but even if I am, it still doesn't make Mir a good idea. All you have to offer are ad-hominems and strawman arguments. The true sign of a fanboy/girl.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by e8hffff View Post
      It's a real shame Kubuntu team are so political. I use Kubuntu and I'm really cross that they wont support the future with a display manager that will allow the deployment of devices wide of field.

      I actually had my account banned from Kubuntu site and I'm not sure why other than I support Mir.
      Ah, an example of a true irrational fanboy/girl. Here is a great example of what I was talking about on the last page. You're blaming the Kubuntu devs for being "political" because they don't use Mir, when the Kubuntu devs have given perfectly valid technical reasons why it's not feasible to do so. You willingly ignore facts because they don't suit your agenda.

      In fact, you are the one being political. You want Kubuntu to use XMir, despite there not being a single good reason for them to do so, and many disadvantages. If they run KDE over XMir, it will simply add another, unnecessary layer between the X server and the hardware. Using Mir via XMir under the actual desktop would not allow KDE to support Mir software, it would provide no benefit whatsoever, instead only taking up resources and making the graphics stack more complex. Tell me a good reason, that is not a "political" reason, why Kubuntu should use Mir?

      Kubuntu will support the future with a display server that "will allow the deployment of devices wide of field" - like every sane distro, they will use Wayland, which is the way of the future. Wayland, which will be the ultimate graphics technology, running on all types of devices ranging from phones to tablets to desktop computers. Wayland is suitable for all those different types of devices because it doesn't dictate an implementation - it only defines a protocol, leaving it up to the compositor to implement it. That's what makes it smart - it's like an open standard that benefits everyone. Mir is a single implementation, that only works for Unity. Nothing else. No one else will get any benefit from using Mir.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by dee. View Post
        In fact, you are the one being political. You want Kubuntu to use XMir, despite there not being a single good reason for them to do so, and many disadvantages. If they run KDE over XMir, it will simply add another, unnecessary layer between the X server and the hardware. Using Mir via XMir under the actual desktop would not allow KDE to support Mir software, it would provide no benefit whatsoever, instead only taking up resources and making the graphics stack more complex. Tell me a good reason, that is not a "political" reason, why Kubuntu should use Mir?.
        XMir is a transitional layer. It will be replaced or sit as a sideline for legacy, so expect Mir to be a direct layer that video cards will talk to for screen allocation and manipulation.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by przemoli View Post
          Be cool and collected, and enumerate Wayland advantages over X.org, and then provide TECHNICAL reasons why such advantages WONT apply to Mir.
          Wayland is a protocol that does not dictate an implementation. Every distro other than Ubuntu is going to use Wayland. Every other desktop environment has plans to move to Wayland. Wayland will be used on many mobile and embedded Linux systems. It is something that has the chance to bring the entire Linux ecosystem together under one graphics standard. Wayland offers an already stable API for developing compositors that work within the Wayland standard. Every major toolkit will support Wayland.

          By contrast, Mir is a fixed implementation - there is no "Mir standard", you can't develop your own Mir server because Canonical can just break the API. Mir is designed only for the needs of Unity, it does not take in account the needs of any other desktop or distribution. It will not benefit anyone other than Canonical. None of the major desktop environments or toolkits have plans to implement Mir support.

          Wayland allows perfect frames, client-side rendering and client buffer allocation. Mir does not.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by e8hffff View Post
            XMir is a transitional layer. It will be replaced or sit as a sideline for legacy, so expect Mir to be a direct layer that video cards will talk to for screen allocation and manipulation.
            Yes, and since KDE has no plans to support Mir natively, if Kubuntu were to use Mir, they'd be SOL when that happens.

            So, again: why should Kubuntu use Mir?

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by dee. View Post
              Yes, and since KDE has no plans to support Mir natively, if Kubuntu were to use Mir, they'd be SOL when that happens.

              So, again: why should Kubuntu use Mir?
              Wake up to yourself. I want to use Kubuntu on mobile devices as well as tablets and desktop.

              Forget about Plasma Active as it's got buckleys of making it to more devices than the fingers on one hand and then you'd be lucky if it will be accelerated and support the hardware. Mir is the opportunity to run everywhere.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by e8hffff View Post
                Wake up to yourself. I want to use Kubuntu on mobile devices as well as tablets and desktop.

                Forget about Plasma Active as it's got buckleys of making it to more devices than the fingers on one hand and then you'd be lucky if it will be accelerated and support the hardware. Mir is the opportunity to run everywhere.
                The same is possible with Wayland, regardless if you just ignore that option. Wayland phones are already announced and will come this year. Wayland can do the exact same things that Mir can do.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Vim_User View Post
                  The same is possible with Wayland, regardless if you just ignore that option. Wayland phones are already announced and will come this year. Wayland can do the exact same things that Mir can do.
                  When I looked at the claims by Wayland it was only indirectly supporting Android video drivers, no other drivers, and was doing it differently than Mir

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by dee. View Post
                    Ah, nice dodge. So what you're saying is, there is no technical reason for Mir to exist. Good.



                    A fanboy of what, pray tell? The definition of "fanboy" is someone who irrationally follows something and willingly ignores it's flaws, blinding themself to facts that contradict their viewpoint to do so. I do none of that. I've been presenting countless actual arguments why Mir is a bad idea, ranging from technical reasons to reasons having to do with the overall benefit of the desktop Linux ecosystem. None of the Mir fanboys have presented any real arguments, apart from strawmen and ad-hominem attacks (kind of like you're doing now).



                    Oh, I get it. Mir is needed because of my grammar. Gotcha. That makes sense...

                    For your information, english is not my first language, so I may not know all the grammar rules exactly. I do use capitalization and spell words correctly, unless it's by mistake/typo. And in fact I haven't been a teenager in over 10 years. Whether I'm "angsty" is debatable and a matter of perspective, but even if I am, it still doesn't make Mir a good idea. All you have to offer are ad-hominems and strawman arguments. The true sign of a fanboy/girl.
                    I never stated that I was here to prove that Mir is the 'best' solution or who should be winner, you just assumed that since I made a comment on your conduct here.
                    My post was nothing to do about Mir, but more to do with your fanboyistic behaviour, most notably the fact that whenever there is any discussion about Mir, any, you're there spreading negativity about the project.
                    It's enough that you don't like it, I can understand that, but every thread about Mir and you're there, saying the same things with nothing new to bring to the table except poor spelling.
                    Showing a strong bias against competitors of projects you like is another sign of a fanboy. Not only are you detracting from the debate, you are also casting a poor light on other, more moderate, Wayland supporters.
                    So please, grow up a little, for the sake of your public perception at least.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Vim_User View Post
                      The same is possible with Wayland, regardless if you just ignore that option. Wayland phones are already announced and will come this year. Wayland can do the exact same things that Mir can do.
                      My understanding is that the only offerings will be separate compositors for mobile and desktop systems.
                      No one else is really trying for a seamless convergence platform except for Ubuntu and the Plasma Active team, though with the latter the majority of the work seems to be X11 specific.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by intellivision View Post
                        I never stated that I was here to prove that Mir is the 'best' solution or who should be winner, you just assumed that since I made a comment on your conduct here.
                        My post was nothing to do about Mir, but more to do with your fanboyistic behaviour, most notably the fact that whenever there is any discussion about Mir, any, you're there spreading negativity about the project.
                        Sometimes there is cause to be negative about something. That doesn't make one a "fanboy" (and you've yet to actually clarify what I'm supposedly a "fanboy" of). If something is bad and harmful for the entire Linux ecosystem, then it's only right to oppose it.

                        The fact of the matter is that Mir is unnecessary, there's no reason for it's existence except to facilitate a Canonical power grab. Wayland is the superior technology, as it works with any desktop, toolkit and distro, not just Unity.

                        It's enough that you don't like it, I can understand that, but every thread about Mir and you're there, saying the same things with nothing new to bring to the table except poor spelling.
                        Ok, since you insist on harping on about "spelling" (which is already irrelevant, since no one here obviously has any problems understanding my language), why don't you point out to me where I have poor spelling. Go on, I'm waiting. Or is it simply that whenever you're unable to come up with any real arguments, you default to spluttering incoherently about grammar and spelling, regardless of if you can actually find any flaws in them? I mean really, if you're going to go for ad-hominem assaults, at least come up with good ad-hominems, not this generic whining about grammar crap...

                        Meanwhile, I'm saying what I think about Mir, I will continue saying what I think about Mir, and I will continue presenting real, valid arguments for why Mir is a bad idea. If you can't handle it, that's your problem, not mine.

                        Showing a strong bias against competitors of projects you like is another sign of a fanboy. Not only are you detracting from the debate, you are also casting a poor light on other, more moderate, Wayland supporters.
                        So please, grow up a little, for the sake of your public perception at least.
                        Hmm nope, you're basically just putting random words next to each other now. I've no need to be "moderate" or pander to ubuntu fanboys, I have no affiliation with the Wayland team, I'm just some random guy on the internet and I have no reason to care about my "public perception".

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by intellivision View Post
                          I never stated that I was here to prove that Mir is the 'best' solution or who should be winner, you just assumed that since I made a comment on your conduct here.
                          My post was nothing to do about Mir, but more to do with your fanboyistic behaviour, most notably the fact that whenever there is any discussion about Mir, any, you're there spreading negativity about the project.
                          It's enough that you don't like it, I can understand that, but every thread about Mir and you're there, saying the same things with nothing new to bring to the table except poor spelling.
                          Showing a strong bias against competitors of projects you like is another sign of a fanboy. Not only are you detracting from the debate, you are also casting a poor light on other, more moderate, Wayland supporters.
                          So please, grow up a little, for the sake of your public perception at least.
                          While you're at it, please tell e8hffff and k1l_ that as well.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by intellivision View Post
                            My understanding is that the only offerings will be separate compositors for mobile and desktop systems.
                            No one else is really trying for a seamless convergence platform except for Ubuntu and the Plasma Active team, though with the latter the majority of the work seems to be X11 specific.
                            Nice buzzwords there. Let's integrate a synergistic convergence platform on the cloud! It will actualize our userbase with an interface that just-works out of the box in a synergistic convergent user experience paradigm!

                            What exact benefit is there to use the same compositor on mobile and desktop? Can you name one? Different form factors require different interfaces, and there's no point in trying to force them all in the same mold. Wayland provides a protocol that allows developers to develop compositors on any platform regardless of form factor, which in turn allows applications to run on any compositor. Why should there be the same compositor, or the same interface, on all form factors?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by e8hffff View Post
                              When I looked at the claims by Wayland it was only indirectly supporting Android video drivers, no other drivers, and was doing it differently than Mir
                              Libhybris, which Mir uses to support Android drivers, was originally developed by a Jolla employee to support Android drivers on Wayland. Which it still does. Canonical simply forked it to support Mir and pretended like they did it all by themselves.

                              Wayland, at this point, has the exact same driver support as Mir. If you want to run Kubuntu on a phone or tablet, you can do that with Wayland, at least as well as you could with Mir.

                              So, again: why should Kubuntu use Mir? Can you answer that simple question?

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by dee. View Post
                                Nice buzzwords there. Let's integrate a synergistic convergence platform on the cloud! It will actualize our userbase with an interface that just-works out of the box in a synergistic convergent user experience paradigm!
                                That's easy, the tricky part is adding the frontend-firewall on the multiple graphic stacks shell.
                                But that's the power of being interface- and protocol-agnostic, the sky is the limit.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X