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Canonical Is Hiring More Mir, Unity Developers

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  • #16
    Originally posted by k1l_ View Post
    The main developer worked for RedHat when he started with Wayland; now he works for Intel. But did you never wonder why the RedHat guys keep the shitstorm running when its against Ubuntu/Canonical?
    Can you provide any links supporting this statement? At this time, the only statements from Wayland I saw was correcting the misleading information Canonical spread. Do you blame them for that? Aside of that, I saw KWin maintainer and Kubuntu maintainer discussing it with a negative view for Mir, and a GNOME dev here just saying there is no interest to support Mir on his camp. Else than that, only forum posters who have nothing to do officially with Wayland or Red Hat, AFAIK.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Redi44 View Post
      I would even pay some serious cash to know what is behind the decision to re-invent the wheel, to make MIR, to dump Wayland. I just can't believe that it's only because of some stupid feature that could be discussed. There must be more...
      Based on your responses here you seem to be a troll but if that's not the case they state their reasons here.

      Originally posted by Redi44
      Because the "Linux community" is more inteligent than most of the idiotic managers in these corporations and realizes that whatever succeeds will be with us for the next few decades and that separating such important projects splits the manpower and fragments our already small cummunity.
      Why is this fragmentation a bad thing? To me it is what makes the open source community better than the alternatives. I have a choice of many different distros/torrent clients/browsers/desktop environments/gui toolkits/design philosophies/etc so why not display servers? You are making the assumption that for example there are 30 Mir developers and 30 Wayland devs and if Mir didn't exist we would have 60 wayland devs and everything would be done twice as fast, but that is not how it works. If the Mir developers didn't exist Canonical might put one developer on making sure there was compatibility between Wayland and Ubuntu and everyone else would be focusing on some other part of Ubuntu.

      I think the drama between the two groups is disappointing. Both of them seem to have some trouble with communication and that's the biggest problem I see in this situation.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
        Is it really that hard to believe that Wayland isn't the greatest piece of software in the world and that others consider that they can do better?
        It would be easier to take this comment seriously if you point out a difference between how Wayland and Mir works, and the message thread where Canonical tried adding it into Wayland and got rejected.

        It's pretty obvious Canonical is doing Mir separately for business reasons, and there's nothing wrong with that. There's also nothing wrong with commenters here believing that fragmentation is hurting linux.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by cynical View Post
          Based on your responses here you seem to be a troll but if that's not the case they state their reasons here.



          Why is this fragmentation a bad thing? To me it is what makes the open source community better than the alternatives. I have a choice of many different distros/torrent clients/browsers/desktop environments/gui toolkits/design philosophies/etc so why not display servers? You are making the assumption that for example there are 30 Mir developers and 30 Wayland devs and if Mir didn't exist we would have 60 wayland devs and everything would be done twice as fast, but that is not how it works. If the Mir developers didn't exist Canonical might put one developer on making sure there was compatibility between Wayland and Ubuntu and everyone else would be focusing on some other part of Ubuntu.

          I think the drama between the two groups is disappointing. Both of them seem to have some trouble with communication and that's the biggest problem I see in this situation.
          +1

          Also Mir is more of a substitute for surfacefling, than anything else, which supports android drivers.

          I don't think wayland could support A-drivers in the same way, or could be a pain to rework parts of it and then have upstream not integrate the patches, place them on hold or even refuse them.

          IMO, with Mir canonical won't have any weird surprises or delays.
          Last edited by madjr; 06-26-2013, 10:30 PM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
            Is it really that hard to believe that Wayland isn't the greatest piece of software in the world and that others consider that they can do better?
            Given that they kicked off Mir by talking their mouths off about Wayland's deficiencies, then had to admit they didn't know what they were talking about? Wayland might not be perfect, but I certainly don't have any faith that the Mir "experts" can do better.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by madjr View Post
              I don't think wayland could support A-drivers in the same way, or could be a pain to rework parts of it and then have upstream not integrate the patches, place them on hold or even refuse them.

              IMO, with Mir canonical won't have any weird surprises or delays.
              Canonical based their code that makes Android drivers usable for Mir on libhybris, which makes Android drivers usable for Wayland. Go figure.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by cynical
                Based on your responses here you seem to be a troll but if that's not the case they state their reasons here.
                ...that doesn't really tell anything to anybody. Here's one with little less marketing speech. It essentially boils down to not wanting to collaborate; it's also good to remember that Canonical at no point contacted Wayland developers.

                Originally posted by madjr View Post
                I don't think wayland could support A-drivers in the same way, or could be a pain to rework parts of it and then have upstream not integrate the patches, place them on hold or even refuse them.
                Wayland utilizing Android GPU drivers on glibc based systems, Part 1
                Wayland utilizing Android GPU drivers on glibc based systems, Part 2

                It could and of course unsuprisingly the lead developer of libhybris, the thing that makes all of this possible, is working on Wayland.

                Originally posted by cynical
                I have a choice of many different distros/torrent clients/browsers/desktop environments/gui toolkits/design philosophies/etc so why not display servers?
                Because it makes developing applications for Linux ever more expensive and harder. Adding support for multiple display servers isn't cheap unless you use a toolkit. It fragments the platform and therefore makes it harder to target; I mean we finally got over the audio stack fragemntation and now we have to deal with the same shit again? Not to mention that Mir is developed in such manner that it will and never could be adopted by other projects aside from Ubuntu and Unity.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by blackout23 View Post
                  control ... makes it easier to make a product
                  I only wish they stopped call the product Ubuntu. Because nothing could be further from the Ubuntu philosophy than their craving for absolute control to the detriment of the community. They should have rebranded it Fascism Linux.
                  Last edited by prodigy_; 06-26-2013, 11:44 PM.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by madjr View Post
                    +1

                    Also Mir is more of a substitute for surfacefling, than anything else, which supports android drivers.

                    I don't think wayland could support A-drivers in the same way, or could be a pain to rework parts of it and then have upstream not integrate the patches, place them on hold or even refuse them. [...]
                    It seems Jolla has no problem using Wayland in combination with Android drivers for their Sailfish-OS:
                    http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...tem&px=MTM0OTE

                    AFAIR from the infamous IRC log of one Mir developer chatting with the Wayland developers, the Mir developer didn't know that it'd be possible to use Mir in conjunction with server side buffer allocation -- one prequesite for using Android drivers. But they didn't ask either. Maybe the Jolla developer asked...


                    By the way... why hiring new developers? I thought they'd clone them xD

                    [Edit: typo]
                    Last edited by oleid; 06-27-2013, 01:19 AM.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Teho View Post
                      ...
                      Thank you.

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                      • #26
                        Correction for above: AFAIR from the infamous IRC log of one Mir developer chatting with the Wayland developers, the Mir developer didn't know that it'd be possible to use Wayland in conjunction with server side buffer allocation -- one prequesite for using Android drivers. But they didn't ask either. Maybe the Jolla developer asked...
                        -----------

                        Should have read Wayland, as marked above

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by madjr View Post
                          I don't think wayland could support A-drivers in the same way, or could be a pain to rework parts of it and then have upstream not integrate the patches, place them on hold or even refuse them.
                          *headdesk* How do people still believe this? As has been explained dozens of times, the library that Mir uses to run on android was developed for Wayland and works just fine with Wayland.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by madjr View Post
                            BS
                            See, that's the exact reason why people are so pissed off by this Mir thing. Because of people like you, that repeat stuff like that.

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                            • #29
                              How dare they make Mir when Wayland was already around.

                              How dare they make PulseAudio when Alsa was already around.

                              How dare they make Gnome, when KDE was already around.



                              There's only room for one of everything guys. Just one. No one else as the right to the freedom of chioce and doing things thier won way. Nope, zero freedom.

                              Thats it folks, end thread. No freodom for you.

                              Side-Note: Who uses words Like Fascism, lol, what a tool. Dumb Fox News watcher. I bet you think that the government puts fluoride in the water to control you. Its true, run, hide, don't drink the water, lol.

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                              • #30
                                Shut the hell up clown. Brain washed ubuntu turds can't comprehend that fragmentation caused by Mir is bad. But maybe it's even good, maybe canonical will bankrupt faster after wasting their money for stupid projects.

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