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Mir Display Server Now Uses XKB Common

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Siekacz View Post
    I'm asking for it one more time - i know that your butts hurt, but stop this (pro|anti)(Mir|Wayland) nonsense. I'm a Ubuntu fan, I'm looking forward for UnityNext and Mir, but that's what happening on this forum (and not only) since Canonical's announcement is ridiculous, childish and pointless. Writing "Wayland" or "Mir" causes a chain reaction of shitstorm. Come on guys, is this the way the OpenSource community behaves?!
    People flock to open source because they can use something that meets their needs. If anyone talks of forking something in some way they don't want, they go ballistic. Its really quite simple.

    My take: I'd rather have one standard that works then 5 options that don't.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Alex Sarmiento View Post
      Whatever. ubuntu is the most decent linux distribution for personal use that exist. If they decide to use mir instead of wayland, cool then, users shouldn't notice it anyways.
      A) I don't think that you understand why is everybody so upset by the CanonicalWay™ IMHO.
      B) Fedora seems to be OK too lately, If you can stand Gnome sHell. It's a little bit more advanced but hey, I personally don't know any PC noob who installs Linux by himself. People who install Linux either know what they are doing or they have somebody to do the dirty work instead of them IMHO...
      Last edited by Redi44; 04-17-2013, 12:05 PM. Reason: typo...

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      • #18
        Originally posted by gamerk2 View Post
        Whats the marketshare of Windows in the corporate market, again?
        That would imply that using Windows is a sane decision. Anyways, we are talking about open source display servers and open source companies here.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Vim_User View Post
          That would imply that using Windows is a sane decision.
          Which it is for tons and tons of tasks for many end-users, developers and companies all over the world.

          Just because an operating system is proprietary and not as technically advanced as other alternatives does not make it any less sane as a tier-one choice for a workhorse system.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
            X.org could have been improved, no need to reinvent the wheel. This whole thing will create horrible pains for the end user just so these people can get their way.
            I think that Daniel explains quite clearly why improving X.org becomes less and less a viable option:
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIctzAQOe44

            We've reached the point where the current usage of desktop graphics (compositing bitmaps painted by clients application running toolkit libraries like Qt, GTK, ... and the compositing isn't even done by X.org. The X server only passes things around) has absolutely nothing to do with what was X11 back when it was developed (a way to send synchronously a stream of painting commands [draw/fill/blit/print text] to the X server for it to paint them on the framebuffer).

            Under the hood X11 is already a huge "turtles-all-the-way-down"-style pile of patches trying to circumvent and fix all the current short-commings. All this with an increasing complexity due to partly the sheer number of patchings/fixing that has been going on lately, and partly due to the fact that the same modern X server that has to live in a world of application-bitmap-compositing, has to be backward compatible all the way back to the "stream of painting commands" days, including all the various cruft accumulated along this way.

            At some point of time, it might be a good idea to start implementing something modern, that ditches all the historic backward-compatible shit, and does more efficiently what is currently expected from modern display stacks. Hence experimenting with Wayland (on which several X veretans are working, so they develop it knowing very well what all the past problems where and what all the current X short comings are).
            But this kind of complete rewrite should NOT be rushed. Devs need to take time to make sure that everything works nicely, that by trying to run away from old problems, we didn't run into newer ones, that everything works nicely, and that the end-user experience isn't disturbed by the change. (In other terms: avoid the outrage that Gnome 2 to 3 or KDE 3 to 4 switching provoked).
            Hence the slow pace of development of Wayland development.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by sacridex View Post
              Orly?
              Let's just assume, Mir will be fucking awesome and will beat the shit out of Wayland:
              Why exactly would anyone NOT use Mir and go for Wayland instead? If Canonical decides to go another direction, Mir can be forked and everyone is still happy.
              No point in assuming that because it won't happen. The wayland developers have significantly more experience when it comes to developing a display server, and they are trying to do things the "right way", whilst mir exists purely to quickly develop a display server that only suits unity's needs, so it will probably be rather "quick and hacky" compared to wayland.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by bwat47 View Post
                No point in assuming that because it won't happen. The wayland developers have significantly more experience when it comes to developing a display server, and they are trying to do things the "right way", whilst mir exists purely to quickly develop a display server that only suits unity's needs, so it will probably be rather "quick and hacky" compared to wayland.
                Canonical plan is Unity and nothing more. Phone, tablets, desktop are intended to run Unity... people using other desktops etc. aren't a part of their business plan. They may be supported, but they may not be a part of the big plan.


                IMHO I don't care what display server I use. It has to work, and it has to work with desktop I choose. By they way they could do something noticeable for the user, like plug-and-play support for USB(3) digital output adapters (HDMI/DVI/DP, just like on Windows), or for example wireless headphones (at the moment I can easily use one with Gnome Mplayer, but not other GUIs) and stuff like that that annoys me

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Redi44 View Post
                  A) I don't think that you understand why is everybody so upset by the CanonicalWay™ IMHO.
                  B) Fedora seems to be OK too lately, If you can stand Gnome sHell. It's a little bit more advanced but hey, I personally don't know any PC noob who installs Linux by himself. People who install Linux either know what they are doing or they have somebody to do the dirty work instead of them IMHO...
                  A) Honestly, i don't understand nor stand the whining.
                  B) Really?

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by riklaunim View Post
                    IMHO I don't care what display server I use. It has to work, and it has to work with desktop I choose.
                    In other words, X11?

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Alex Sarmiento View Post
                      A) Honestly, i don't understand nor stand the whining.
                      B) Really?

                      A) GTFO then...
                      B) Really.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by r_a_trip View Post
                        X is far from dead and useless. It is old and creaky, but it still powers an awful lot of *Nix displays. I don't get all the clammoring for something else "right now!" X has more than enough life left to see us through untill the transition to a new display architecture can take place smoothly.
                        X has to die soon and I hope it will. Be it Wayland or Mir, but get rid of this unix crap as soon as possible. It's enough to use XWayland or XMir for some legacy applications in the future, but KDE, Gnome, enlighment will be running without X just fine.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Redi44 View Post
                          A) GTFO then...
                          B) Really.
                          A) "get the fuck out" ... ok then, from where exactly should i "get the fuck out" ?
                          B) You definitely need to meet more people

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Redi44 View Post
                            People who install Linux either know what they are doing or they have somebody to do the dirty work instead of them IMHO...
                            I had no idea what I was doing when I installed my first Linux distro. Managed to get the whole thing messed up in a matter of days with some basic "ooh what does this button do" behaviour. Picked up the pieces and kept on playing with it until it started making sense. Now I'm at a point where I can even manage to fix most of my mistakes without reinstalling the entire system.

                            For that matter I know a bunch of people who are total noobs with computers and still use Linux. Heck, some of them even use Fedora. Being a computer expert may have been a requirement for using Linux 10 years ago but not anymore.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Alex Sarmiento View Post
                              A) "get the fuck out" ... ok then, from where exactly should i "get the fuck out" ?
                              B) You definitely need to meet more people
                              A) From this discussion?
                              B) Nah, I just need to meet more Linux users and less Mac users....

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Teho View Post
                                A large reason why Canonical gets all the shit it gets is because they are incapable of working in collaborative open source environments. Forking projects left and right. Not contributing patches upstream. Abusing their market dominance to create incompatible standards. Taking openly developed code behind closed doors and releasing it back months later with numerous additions without at any point contacting the upstream. Using contributor license agreements... and so on and so forth.
                                Well, considering both Wayland and Mir will be targeting OpenGL ES drivers it really isn't breaking any standards that will hurt the other project.
                                As for contributing upstream, it seems that Canonical won't even be afforded that luxury since many projects have come out and said they will outright refuse to upstream Mir patches, so take that as you will.

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