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  • Differences Between X.Org, Wayland & Mir

    Phoronix: Differences Between X.Org, Wayland & Mir

    Canonical's Christopher Halse Rogers has blogged some more about their views on the Mir Display Server and its design relative to X11/X.Org and Wayland...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTMzMTQ

  • #2
    "Perhaps we'll become so awesome that it'll make sense for GNOME or KDE to rebase their compositors on Mir, but that's a long way away."

    This is priceless. It's been a long day and I needed a laugh.

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    • #3
      The proof will be in the pudding...and right now that pudding needs to be put together, chilled, and perhaps seasoned a bit before we can try it out, let alone call it "good enough".

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      • #4
        Originally posted by phoronix View Post
        Phoronix: Differences Between X.Org, Wayland & Mir

        Canonical's Christopher Halse Rogers has blogged some more about their views on the Mir Display Server and its design relative to X11/X.Org and Wayland...

        http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTMzMTQ
        The writer is up front about the fact that they're just doing it for themselves and not Community, which is good. They aren't claiming to be the end-all-be-all, they are claiming "This is what we felt we needed to do for us." End of story. Not happg about mir, don't like the idea. But if it gets Wayland kicked into gear and the two projects can learn from eachother... I say let Canonical do whatever they want.

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        • #5
          Ubuntu only?

          When I first heard of Mir, I was unsure what to think. I was hoping that Canonical was promoting this because Mir was going to be far more awesome than Wayland, and thus every Linux user would want it. However, this story seems to indicate that Mir is mostly about making Unity awesome. Well, I appreciate that Canonical is at least coming clean now. The developers of KDE, Gnome, LXDE, XFCE and other desktop environments will have to make a decision on which path to follow. Unless Mir can offer something great that Wayland doesn't, I suspect Mir will probably become an Ubuntu-only feature. But we'll see.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Candide View Post
            When I first heard of Mir, I was unsure what to think. I was hoping that Canonical was promoting this because Mir was going to be far more awesome than Wayland, and thus every Linux user would want it. However, this story seems to indicate that Mir is mostly about making Unity awesome. Well, I appreciate that Canonical is at least coming clean now. The developers of KDE, Gnome, LXDE, XFCE and other desktop environments will have to make a decision on which path to follow. Unless Mir can offer something great that Wayland doesn't, I suspect Mir will probably become an Ubuntu-only feature. But we'll see.
            RedHat employs a lot of gnome developers, and Red Hat and Intel are pushing Wayland so that's a non-issue

            XFCE uses GTK so they'll follow the gnome guys.

            LXDE is on their own.

            Martin (Kwin upstream maintainer) practically told Ubuntu to go fsck themselves.

            EFL and Enlightenment are backing Wayland.

            The lines in the sand have been drawn, the sides have been chosen. Ubuntu stands alone.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by VoodooSyxx View Post
              "Perhaps we'll become so awesome that it'll make sense for GNOME or KDE to rebase their compositors on Mir, but that's a long way away."

              This is priceless. It's been a long day and I needed a laugh.
              I do wish the people at Canonical could turn down the marketing speak at least once in their lives when they are trying to make a point. The word "awesome" hardly inspires confidence.

              Originally posted by Ericg View Post
              LXDE is on their own.
              They use GTK as well, so they pretty much would have to go with Gnome and Xfce I wager. They will need to get Openbox working on Wayland though probably.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Candide View Post
                When I first heard of Mir, I was unsure what to think. I was hoping that Canonical was promoting this because Mir was going to be far more awesome than Wayland, and thus every Linux user would want it. However, this story seems to indicate that Mir is mostly about making Unity awesome. Well, I appreciate that Canonical is at least coming clean now. The developers of KDE, Gnome, LXDE, XFCE and other desktop environments will have to make a decision on which path to follow. Unless Mir can offer something great that Wayland doesn't, I suspect Mir will probably become an Ubuntu-only feature. But we'll see.
                Maybe the end results will be Mir will be for the front-line, and Wayland for the Richard Stallman end of Linux. Proprietary drivers may only support Mir and the other distros will reply on open source drivers.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by e8hffff View Post
                  Maybe the end results will be Mir will be for the front-line, and Wayland for the Richard Stallman end of Linux. Proprietary drivers may only support Mir and the other distros will reply on open source drivers.
                  no because nvidia will work on wayland .. there is absolutely 0 reason to believe otherwise.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by e8hffff View Post
                    Maybe the end results will be Mir will be for the front-line, and Wayland for the Richard Stallman end of Linux. Proprietary drivers may only support Mir and the other distros will reply on open source drivers.
                    Neither Nvidia nor AMD are developing their drivers for the consumer, both companies are developing for the professional user in the first place, having support for consumer cards mostly as a byproduct (this may change with more games coming to Linux, but we have to wait and see). Professional users tend to be more conservative and are, AFAIK, rather running distributions like RHEL or SLED/S, so it is more likely that Wayland will be the first target for proprietary drivers. But since both solutions, Wayland and Mir, seem to use EGL drivers this shouldn't be a major problem.

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                    • #11
                      if canonical wants to make a uber-awesome desktop maybe they should start working in getting rid of that putrid brown sepia theme.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by garegin View Post
                        if canonical wants to make a uber-awesome desktop maybe they should start working in getting rid of that putrid brown sepia theme.
                        They have switched from the brown theme with 10.04 LTS. Not that I think the new one is better, but I would think that is a matter of taste.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Vim_User View Post
                          They have switched from the brown theme with 10.04 LTS. Not that I think the new one is better, but I would think that is a matter of taste.
                          The new theme is terrible too, at least gnome 3 looks sane even though its usability is utter rubbish.

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                          • #14
                            So, one the one hand they're promoting that they're using Google's Protobuf for IPC, on the other hand they're saying they, unlike Wayland, don't really care about IPC, but about creating some awesome "thingy" that's useful ("unlike Wayland").
                            Does anyone else see the irony in this? Also, could this get any more technical? "Thingy", really?

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                            • #15
                              the author use "things" a bit everywhere and it shows a lack of understanding.

                              he's also trying to expose mir as better because mir "includes ipc, libraries AND graphic toolkit AND you have no choice but to use THEIR toolkit". He also makes clear that ANYONE trying to implement their toolkit on top regardless will get broken by their change, and dare I say, probably voluntarily. i.e. it's mir's ubuntu way or the highway (or, punt intended, wayland.)

                              That's why KDE/GNOME will not go on mir. There is no point. Half of KDE/GNOME is the graphical toolkit (which does more than that, too): QT & GTK.

                              Mir also seems to admit they're also not good enough to implement their own ipc, so they use protobuf. hey that's fine, but don't go touting that it's because you're better, if it's because you just don't wanna roll your own.

                              Oh yeah, and "artistic" differences, I mean, that makes me so confident. Seems like mir is another upstart.

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