Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Differences Between X.Org, Wayland & Mir

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    We're the way of the world!



    Get used to it!

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Vim_User View Post
      Neither Nvidia nor AMD are developing their drivers for the consumer, both companies are developing for the professional user in the first place, having support for consumer cards mostly as a byproduct (this may change with more games coming to Linux, but we have to wait and see). Professional users tend to be more conservative and are, AFAIK, rather running distributions like RHEL or SLED/S, so it is more likely that Wayland will be the first target for proprietary drivers. But since both solutions, Wayland and Mir, seem to use EGL drivers this shouldn't be a major problem.
      It was this way till Valve jumped in.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Pawlerson View Post
        It was this way till Valve jumped in.
        It will continue to be that way until valve proves it is likely to provide a larger revenue stream. That may be a hard sell, even if they sell a lot of systems, workstation cards are expensive, while valve is probably going to try to cut expenses by negotiating a deal to cut prices.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by balouba View Post
          Seems like mir is another upstart.
          Although Upstart was started at a time when it was needed, and it's just that it's been supplanted by something better since.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Pawlerson View Post
            It was this way till Valve jumped in.
            We would like to have it that way, no question, but it simply isn't. Nvidia and AMD don't care about the 2% Linux gamers, which mostly own cheap mid-range cards or below (I know, before they all chime in, there are exceptions, people using faster/expensive cards, but how many are they, 5% of the those 2%?). They care about professionals, with cards where one card is more than 1000$, sometimes even a multiple of that, those that bring the reputation in the business market.
            This may change in the future, but we have to see if it really happens.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by e8hffff View Post
              Maybe the end results will be Mir will be for the front-line, and Wayland for the Richard Stallman end of Linux. Proprietary drivers may only support Mir and the other distros will reply on open source drivers.
              If Christopher Halse Rogers (the guy who's blog this article is pointing to) is to be believed then the Mir compatible propietary drivers (on desktop anyway) should work with Wayland just fine. Then there's the fact that Wayland/Weston is licensed under MIT whereas Mir is under L/GPLv3...

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Teho View Post
                If Christopher Halse Rogers (the guy who's blog this article is pointing to) is to be believed then the Mir compatible propietary drivers (on desktop anyway) should work with Wayland just fine. Then there's the fact that Wayland/Weston is licensed under MIT whereas Mir is under L/GPLv3...
                At least my understanding is that Wayland and Mir use the same parts of EGL (standard extensions), but Mir additionally uses some non-standard extensions. Therefore, any driver that supports Mir (or supports standard EGL) will automatically support Wayland. On the other hand, a driver that is designed to support Wayland (or designed to support standard EGL), will not support Mir. This would mean that at least as many drivers will support Wayland than will support Mir.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Teho View Post
                  Then there's the fact that Wayland/Weston is licensed under MIT whereas Mir is under L/GPLv3...
                  Which is a non-issue, since Canonical can give other licenses to companies if necessary.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by TheBlackCat View Post
                    At least my understanding is that Wayland and Mir use the same parts of EGL (standard extensions), but Mir additionally uses some non-standard extensions. Therefore, any driver that supports Mir (or supports standard EGL) will automatically support Wayland. On the other hand, a driver that is designed to support Wayland (or designed to support standard EGL), will not support Mir. This would mean that at least as many drivers will support Wayland than will support Mir.
                    Wayland depends on a non-standard extension to run with the DRM backend (ie. not within X).

                    http://cgit.freedesktop.org/mesa/mes...d_display.spec
                    http://wayland.freedesktop.org/archi...eading_toc_j_2

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by runeks View Post
                      Wayland depends on a non-standard extension to run with the DRM backend (ie. not within X).

                      http://cgit.freedesktop.org/mesa/mes...d_display.spec
                      http://wayland.freedesktop.org/archi...eading_toc_j_2
                      Thanks for the definite answer to that point. Do you happen to know where we can find similar details on Mir specific extensions? Had no luck through a quick google search.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by erendorn View Post
                        Thanks for the definite answer to that point. Do you happen to know where we can find similar details on Mir specific extensions? Had no luck through a quick google search.
                        No I don't know anything about Mir. I don't think they've settled on anything yet, seems like they're still working on that.

                        If you can find where they host their mesa fork, you can see what they've added there to make it work.

                        A Google search yielded the following two URLs, but I get "Access denied":

                        https://code.launchpad.net/~rocket-s...ay-abstraction
                        https://code.launchpad.net/~rocket-s...native-display

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by runeks View Post
                          No I don't know anything about Mir. I don't think they've settled on anything yet, seems like they're still working on that.

                          If you can find where they host their mesa fork, you can see what they've added there to make it work.

                          A Google search yielded the following two URLs, but I get "Access denied":

                          https://code.launchpad.net/~rocket-s...ay-abstraction
                          https://code.launchpad.net/~rocket-s...native-display
                          Thanks.
                          I confirm the "page not found".

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by TheBlackCat View Post
                            It will continue to be that way until valve proves it is likely to provide a larger revenue stream. That may be a hard sell, even if they sell a lot of systems, workstation cards are expensive, while valve is probably going to try to cut expenses by negotiating a deal to cut prices.
                            This is not entirely true.

                            A forum is opened, because Valve talked with Amd.
                            Amd promised Valve they would listen.

                            http://steamcommunity.com/app/221410...9614929131085/

                            AMD has opened a new forum (http://devgurus.amd.com/community/steam-linux) for those of you using Linux AMD graphics drivers. The purpose of the AMD forum is to provide a direct line to AMD for feedback on their graphics drivers.
                            Currently before you can post you will need to create a new AMD forum account and request access to the forum. Currently, the forum is private but that will change to public very soon.
                            In case you are wondering, we will continue monitoring this forum for AMD-related issues with Steam for Linux.
                            Thanks!
                            My topic:
                            http://devgurus.amd.com/thread/160547

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by balouba View Post
                              He also makes clear that ANYONE trying to implement their toolkit on top regardless will get broken by their change, and dare I say, probably voluntarily. i.e. it's mir's ubuntu way or the highway (or, punt intended, wayland.)

                              That's why KDE/GNOME will not go on mir. There is no point. Half of KDE/GNOME is the graphical toolkit (which does more than that, too): QT & GTK.
                              That's kind of the impression i got too. That they didn't like the fact that Wayland had a specified frozen API which can't be broken, just like X did. Instead, it sounds like Mir will probably be incompatible every time a new release of Ubuntu gets rolled out, as they change things in it.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Gps4l View Post
                                This is not entirely true.

                                A forum is opened, because Valve talked with Amd.
                                Amd promised Valve they would listen.

                                http://steamcommunity.com/app/221410...9614929131085/



                                My topic:
                                http://devgurus.amd.com/thread/160547
                                AMD has told a lot of people they'll "listen". The results have always been questionable.

                                And anyway, Valve has confirmed they will be sticking with X for the foreseeable future, so that's no reason to support Mir just for them.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X