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More Mir Talking Points Come Out Of Canonical

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  • #61
    Originally posted by e8hffff View Post
    You read it wrong. Wayland team's work would move head by merging in to Mir. Both teams working together to obtain success.
    And why not the other way around? Merge Mir into Wayland-- you know, the solution that actually HAS all the parts "Done right" and ACTUALLY complete instead of a giant TODO list of some of the hardest goals to achieve in a display server, let alone in 6months?

    This comes down to license and copyright e8hffff, thats all this is. With Wayland Canonical can't dictate its direction, with Mir they can-- more specifically thanks to the CLA they can even change the license of it at will. Now, I'm not saying CLA's are evil, I'm not Funkstar, but quite frankly...I dont trust Canonical anymore.

    They've been making it very clear that they want to be the only name in the Linux ecosystem and want any projects they use to be under their control-- hence Unity, Mir, Ubuntu Software Center, hence the lack of even the word "Linux" on their website. They WANT to distance themselves as far away from the "Linux" Name as possible, because it implies community and NOT a single company idea and thats exact what Canonical wants-- a single company ecosystem.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Ericg View Post
      And why not the other way around? Merge Mir into Wayland-- you know, the solution that actually HAS all the parts "Done right" and ACTUALLY complete instead of a giant TODO list of some of the hardest goals to achieve in a display server, let alone in 6months?

      This comes down to license and copyright e8hffff, thats all this is. With Wayland Canonical can't dictate its direction, with Mir they can-- more specifically thanks to the CLA they can even change the license of it at will. Now, I'm not saying CLA's are evil, I'm not Funkstar, but quite frankly...I dont trust Canonical anymore.

      They've been making it very clear that they want to be the only name in the Linux ecosystem and want any projects they use to be under their control-- hence Unity, Mir, Ubuntu Software Center, hence the lack of even the word "Linux" on their website. They WANT to distance themselves as far away from the "Linux" Name as possible, because it implies community and NOT a single company idea and thats exact what Canonical wants-- a single company ecosystem.
      I agree with your assessment. I think you're right on.

      Though I also think it's a good strategy if one is looking to capture a broad market with the kind of ambition Shuttleworth has. And distancing themselves a bit from the "L-word" (i.e., Linux) in their packaging is probably a good part of that. But I have significant doubts that Canonical has the talent and vision necessary to be successful, just based on my experiences over the past year.

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      • #63
        Every time I hear the name Shuttleworth, I think shuttlecock. I have this image burnt into my brain of a badminton birdie with Mark's smiling face on the head that for whatever reason is speaking in a Michael Jackson voice as it gets banged around. *bonk* "Wee, Unity everybody!" *bonk* "We're going to back Wayland!" *bonk* "Nah, just kidding, now we have Mir. Wee!" Even fits with his whole space tourist fixation.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by IanS View Post
          Every time I hear the name Shuttleworth, I think shuttlecock. I have this image burnt into my brain of a badminton birdie with Mark's smiling face on the head that for whatever reason is speaking in a Michael Jackson voice as it gets banged around. *bonk* "Wee, Unity everybody!" *bonk* "We're going to back Wayland!" *bonk* "Nah, just kidding, now we have Mir. Wee!" Even fits with his whole space tourist fixation.
          Wayland should just rename itself ISS.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by brent View Post
            What's the specific problem with Canonical's CLA? The GNU copyright assignment is similar and nobody seems to give a shit
            On the contrary - there are plenty of people who don't much like the GNU copyright assignment either. Partly because it's administrative overhead, partly because they don't want to sign their rights away to anyone.

            But there's also the emotive difference between giving away your copyright to a non-profit organisation, versus giving it away to a profit-making company. RMS can be a raving lunatic sometimes, but he's an honest one. Whereas Shuttleworth's recent attitude towards the non-Ubuntu community has been very aggressive, and very off-putting.

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            • #66
              I don't really care about all the politics involved but if Canonical can get AMD and Nvidia onboard with propritary driver support for whatever replaces the aging Xorg, I'm all for it.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                Wayland should just rename itself ISS.
                First read-worthy post in the whole Mir phoronix troll shitstorm.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by not.sure View Post
                  First read-worthy post in the whole Mir phoronix troll shitstorm.
                  It's actually fits very well if you think about it. Mir was one superpowers efforts under a crumbling regime to keep itself viewed as a superpower and eventually fell to earth in a ball of fire. ISS was a worldwide effort to benefit multiple nations by using the combined talent of those nations.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by e8hffff View Post
                    You read it wrong. Wayland team's work would move head by merging in to Mir. Both teams working together to obtain success.
                    The Wayland guys would have to be completely out of their heads to agree to that, given a) Mir's copyright assignment requirement, and b) that there's no reason whatsoever in doing so.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by e8hffff View Post
                      You read it wrong. Wayland team's work would move head by merging in to Mir. Both teams working together to obtain success.
                      Right, for Wayland a project that has been in development in the open for years; has buy-in from pretty much all major players in the open source world, Intel/Red Hat/etc; is the accepted successor to X.org by pretty much everyone; will be used in Sailfish and Tizen; has support of all major toolkits, Qt, Gtk+, EFL, SDL, etc. They should totally subject themselves to the whims of Mr. Shuttleworth and the project that was developed in secret behind closed doors and sprung on the world as a big surprise a few days ago, along with a healthy dose of misinformation and FUD about the very foundation from which they build their project on. It should totally be the Wayland folks that should be more accommodating. Do you know how ridiculous you sound?

                      I do agree that everyone pool their resources and work together, that's why Mir should never has been created in the first place. There might be sound business reasons to do so (i.e. in house control), but no technical reasons whatsoever.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Ericg View Post
                        And why not the other way around? Merge Mir into Wayland-- you know, the solution that actually HAS all the parts "Done right" and ACTUALLY complete instead of a giant TODO list of some of the hardest goals to achieve in a display server, let alone in 6months?
                        Because, yet again, Wayland is at a cross roads. They have failed to get any specific uptake other than side-lining with libs.

                        Canonical a needs a different flowchart and algorithms in a display-server so they decided to create their own. It's not a conspiracy other than the plan is to take Linux to mobile devices and to tackle a major problem of drivers support for those devices. The conspiracy is they may cut into Apple and Google market shares.

                        Originally posted by Ericg View Post
                        This comes down to license and copyright e8hffff, thats all this is. With Wayland Canonical can't dictate its direction, with Mir they can-- more specifically thanks to the CLA they can even change the license of it at will. Now, I'm not saying CLA's are evil, I'm not Funkstar, but quite frankly...I dont trust Canonical anymore.
                        There's no reason not to trust them. They give away their software for free, and any content added becomes open source. If they ever go super commercial then you can fork the code or copy parts out.

                        Originally posted by Ericg View Post
                        They've been making it very clear that they want to be the only name in the Linux ecosystem and want any projects they use to be under their control-- hence Unity, Mir, Ubuntu Software Center, hence the lack of even the word "Linux" on their website. They WANT to distance themselves as far away from the "Linux" Name as possible, because it implies community and NOT a single company idea and thats exact what Canonical wants-- a single company ecosystem.
                        No other Linux Distro is attempting to hit the mobile market, so they will look different, the Tall Poppy. Other Distro will want to implement the same solutions once they see the course.

                        I don't know what you're going on about Ubuntu not being a community event. Get on Launchpad and you can easily share or partake in projects.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Hermit View Post
                          Right, for Wayland a project that has been in development in the open for years; has buy-in from pretty much all major players in the open source world, Intel/Red Hat/etc; is the accepted successor to X.org by pretty much everyone; will be used in Sailfish and Tizen; has support of all major toolkits, Qt, Gtk+, EFL, SDL, etc...
                          Sorry to say but Plasma-Active, Tizen and Sailfish are going no where.

                          I would love Plasma-Active to be a success but it's crippled by lack of flash device images, driver support and functionality. No one will buy or develop for an ecosystem that is restricted or appears to have failed, like these OS's are.

                          Majority of Chinese tablet and phone manufacturers use Android or a derivative remake like (Baidu Yi or OPhone?), so Sailfish, Tizen, or Plasma-Active, don't have a chance. Are you going to help port Sailfish, Tizen, or Plasma-Active, to each device without datasheets and code specifics to control the hardware? We are talking about years of work whilst each device becomes obsolete as you start to get numbers. No way are you going to get the device numbers into a market to promote them as a solution people want. They may have had a chance 5 years ago. We need a reality check point.

                          So now we know the difficulties, it's clear Canonical has the answers to broaden Linux Users access to hardware. They have mastermind a plan and shown proof of concept to piggyback on Android whilst still keeping true to Linux's base. A win for all Linux Users.
                          Last edited by e8hffff; 03-12-2013, 02:36 AM.

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                          • #73


                            Man, the trolling here is terminal. I'm not sure why I signed up.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by johnc View Post
                              There is no future for discrete GPUs?

                              Right.

                              I guess there's no future for gaming either.

                              What was Valve thinking coming to Linux?

                              Regardless, it's a bit premature to spell out the demise of NVIDIA. I think they've been following the "hardware evolutions" close enough to get into the mobile market, which is why Tegra sales make up 20% of their total revenue right now. Going the way of Matrox is a declaration a bit too early to make.
                              Nope, there isn't a future for discrete GPUs... I am not talking about.. right now, but soon enough they will be obsolete...

                              NVIDIA made the right choice with Tegra, given what they had to work with... In my opinion, too little, too late...

                              As for gaming , not only it has a future, it has a BRIGHT future, in terms of technology. And Linux will become a big part of that. That is why Valve is coming... Have a little patience...
                              Last edited by TemplarGR; 03-12-2013, 06:28 AM.

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                              • #75
                                Hmm

                                I wonder where the few die-hard pro-Ubuntu fighters here come from ... maybe canonical

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