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KWin On Mir: A Solution To Non-Existent Problem

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  • KWin On Mir: A Solution To Non-Existent Problem

    Phoronix: KWin On Mir: A Solution To Non-Existent Problem

    While Mark Shuttleworth seems to think that KDE/KWin will end up running on the Mir Display Server, even though the KWin maintainer has already said he won't accept any patches even if they are written, the display server / compositing manager battles continue...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTMyMjM

  • #2
    We don't need no water,
    Let the motherfscker burn.

    BURN MOTHERFSCKER,
    BURN!



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    • #3
      oh snap.

      If Canonical keeps up with Mir and if it manages to become more successful than Wayland, it does get me to wonder what devs like Martin will do or say when they realize they might have to join. While I think Martin makes an excellent point, I don't think Mir is that bad; lets put it in this way - it's more complete than Wayland and it'll offer Android drivers, but it isn't as clunky and obsolete as X. Really the only serious problem with Mir (that I can see) is getting devs to port everything to it when they already are in the process of that for Wayland. In other words, I think Mir pisses off devs because it's too late. I'm sure if it existed BEFORE wayland then it would get the same positive attention as wayland, minus the few people who hate canonical just because they want to hate canonical.

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      • #4
        OT: My favorite conversation about nVidia....

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        • #5
          Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
          oh snap.

          If Canonical keeps up with Mir and if it manages to become more successful than Wayland, it does get me to wonder what devs like Martin will do or say when they realize they might have to join. While I think Martin makes an excellent point, I don't think Mir is that bad; lets put it in this way - it's more complete than Wayland and it'll offer Android drivers, but it isn't as clunky and obsolete as X. Really the only serious problem with Mir (that I can see) is getting devs to port everything to it when they already are in the process of that for Wayland. In other words, I think Mir pisses off devs because it's too late. I'm sure if it existed BEFORE wayland then it would get the same positive attention as wayland, minus the few people who hate canonical just because they want to hate canonical.
          In what way is it more complete than Wayland? If Mir existed before Wayland, Wayland wouldn't exist. The whole reason it pisses everyone off is because it splits the community needlessly. But the thing is that Wayland came into existance, then for some reason, Ubuntu made claims that they would go with Wayland, even while they were secretly developing Mir and planning this garbage montage the entire time. This must be the most pointless waste of time I've ever seen and does nothing but delay hope of proprietary support in something other than X.

          In addition, if Mir does become popular with proprietary support, do you honestly believe I'll switch from my current distro to some other distro I'm not familiar with just because it chose to monopolize a display server unnecessarily? I'd sooner move to Windows.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
            I don't think Mir is that bad; lets put it in this way - it's more complete than Wayland
            Mir doesn't have anything functional yet, it's basically just a sparkle in Shuttleworth's eye at this point. Wayland is already at 1.0 with a stable API and has a working reference implementation. In what universe does this make Mir MORE complete???

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            • #7
              "Mir is an answer to a question nobody asked. It’s a solution to problem which does not exist."

              aha, so why they started wayland then? there exists a problem and actually i do not remember anybody denying it... till now.

              while wayland currently is at best a candidate for a solution who has the right do deny others a different try to provide a solution?

              that sentence i cited is the most arrogant one i heared for a long time.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
                oh snap.

                If Canonical keeps up with Mir and if it manages to become more successful than Wayland, it does get me to wonder what devs like Martin will do or say when they realize they might have to join. While I think Martin makes an excellent point, I don't think Mir is that bad; lets put it in this way - it's more complete than Wayland and it'll offer Android drivers, but it isn't as clunky and obsolete as X. Really the only serious problem with Mir (that I can see) is getting devs to port everything to it when they already are in the process of that for Wayland. In other words, I think Mir pisses off devs because it's too late. I'm sure if it existed BEFORE wayland then it would get the same positive attention as wayland, minus the few people who hate canonical just because they want to hate canonical.
                He did leave the door open for that. He said he did not accept patches if MIR was not used on many distributions outside of Ubuntu. At least in the first blog. But he didn't think it was especially likely.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by a user View Post
                  "Mir is an answer to a question nobody asked. Itís a solution to problem which does not exist."

                  aha, so why they started wayland then? there exists a problem and actually i do not remember anybody denying it... till now.

                  while wayland currently is at best a candidate for a solution who has the right do deny others a different try to provide a solution?

                  that sentence i cited is the most arrogant one i heared for a long time.
                  I think it was because Shuttlewoth announced kwin soon should work with MIR that trigged the response. Apparently Canonical have never contributed anything in kwin.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
                    While I think Martin makes an excellent point, I don't think Mir is that bad; lets put it in this way - it's more complete than Wayland
                    o.O No its not. Go back a few articles and michael listed the "TODO" List for Mir. it was massive, and filled with a LOT of hardwork and NONE of Canonicals devs have any experience with the low level stuff. Wayland is basically usable now. I specifically asked Daniel Stone when Wayland would be considered "usable" and he said "If you like XCFE...its usable now." Meaning, minimal environments are done. KDE and GNOME have to be ported over still, KDE will happen when Frameworks 5 hits which hopefully will be this year. Gnome is currently ported off an old version of wayland, but is being worked on.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Akka View Post
                      I think it was because Shuttlewoth announced kwin soon should work with MIR that trigged the response. Apparently Canonical have never contributed anything in kwin.
                      git log | grep "@canonical" on the kwin sources shows 0 commits by any canonical employee ever. Which is especially funny because Mark promised the KDE community that Canonical would supply the patches necessary to work on Wayland when Ubuntu said "We're going to Wayland!" because at the time they were the only distro doing it.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Ericg View Post
                        o.O No its not. Go back a few articles and michael listed the "TODO" List for Mir. it was massive, and filled with a LOT of hardwork and NONE of Canonicals devs have any experience with the low level stuff. Wayland is basically usable now. I specifically asked Daniel Stone when Wayland would be considered "usable" and he said "If you like XCFE...its usable now." Meaning, minimal environments are done. KDE and GNOME have to be ported over still, KDE will happen when Frameworks 5 hits which hopefully will be this year. Gnome is currently ported off an old version of wayland, but is being worked on.
                        Are you sure it was xfce? I thought they still used gtk2?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Akka View Post
                          I think it was because Shuttlewoth announced kwin soon should work with MIR that trigged the response. Apparently Canonical have never contributed anything in kwin.
                          i understand that the main dev of kwin gets upset by such a statement. i would most probably feel the same.

                          but that doesn't make it better what he said a top of this (my quote above). beside of that, already the first statement i saw from that dev was already very aggressivly negative while trying to pretend neutrality, even before canonicle posted that announcement.

                          in fact, we do not know what happens there in the backstage. and i do not want to judge who started what. but it pisses me off reading such idiotic statements like the ones above and i saw many of that style here in the forums.

                          if canonical wants to start their own display server project then they have al right to do it and they do not own anybody to first ask for permission or get in contact with any other startup project with the same aim.
                          why i haven't read any such statements when wayland started? sure even there were a lot of complaints like "why we need that? fragmentation bla bla". and now the same people seem to defend wayland >.>

                          it feels here like a big kindagarden. it really makes me sad seeing how the linux community changed. it sounds as if former window users are hopping on linux now and are whining about every thing what made linux different in the past.

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                          • #14
                            Uhm.., you guys DO realize that Larabel is just trolling you, right?!

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by not.sure View Post
                              Uhm.., you guys DO realize that Larabel is just trolling you, right?!
                              Trolling what? Martin made the blogpost, Michael brought the blogpost to the news world. End of story. I've read the blogpost, it reads exactly what Michael reported.

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